sideslip in the 320?
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sideslip in the 320?
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Great question!!!!!
Great question....one that is misunderstood by many....too many.
Please refer to FCOM 3.04.27 P4, FCTM NO-160 P 3/12 (24 JUN 09), and
Airbus Flight Operations Briefing Note "Landing Techniques....Crosswind Landings" (April of 2006).
This will answer your question.
Fly safe,
PantLoad
Please refer to FCOM 3.04.27 P4, FCTM NO-160 P 3/12 (24 JUN 09), and
Airbus Flight Operations Briefing Note "Landing Techniques....Crosswind Landings" (April of 2006).
This will answer your question.
Fly safe,
PantLoad
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I've done this in a Simulator several times with both the A320 and A330.
The answer is, YES, you can - at least in the SIM you can.
That said, it would be a bad idea to do it in reality unless absolutely necessary (meaning, if a Go-Around is NOT an option [Dual Engine Failure, etc]).
The tail is really not stressed for it, therefore, damage is likely to occur. I recall something about an AA Airbus with the tail breaking off near JFK
However, if - in the case of the Air Canada flight - the Captain had not done so, the outcome of that flight would have been most decidedly different. Remembering of course, that the Captain of that flight was also an accomplished Glider Instructor, who was intimately familiar using the "Slip" maneuver.
The answer is, YES, you can - at least in the SIM you can.
That said, it would be a bad idea to do it in reality unless absolutely necessary (meaning, if a Go-Around is NOT an option [Dual Engine Failure, etc]).
The tail is really not stressed for it, therefore, damage is likely to occur. I recall something about an AA Airbus with the tail breaking off near JFK
However, if - in the case of the Air Canada flight - the Captain had not done so, the outcome of that flight would have been most decidedly different. Remembering of course, that the Captain of that flight was also an accomplished Glider Instructor, who was intimately familiar using the "Slip" maneuver.
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Sorry, misunderstood....
I really didn't bother looking at the video....should have....as, that was the point of the posting. Sorry....
However, when landing in a crosswind, you're doing a side slip. When taking off, experiencing an engine failure, you're doing a side slip.
The rudder is stressed for this.
However, as PappyJ mentioned, though, it is not stressed for some movements, even below the 'maneuvering' speed. Please refer to Airbus
FCOM Bulletin Number 828/1 dated June of 2004.
This is what got American Airlines...the Airbus A-300 coming out of JFK....
For whatever reason (poor training, ignorance, etc.), the flying pilot made extreme movements of the rudder back and forth....one way, then the other way....and this is what broke the tail off. This is what overstressed the tail. This is what FCOM Bulletin 828/1 addresses.
But, to be clear, side slips are routine maneuvers....(as in crosswinds)...
and, not-so-routine in engine failures. The rudder is designed for this....is stressed for this. When the B-767 did side slips (video), I sure the captain was not banging the rudder from one limit to the other. This is not how you do a side slip....or a forward slip.
Fly safe,
PantLoad
However, when landing in a crosswind, you're doing a side slip. When taking off, experiencing an engine failure, you're doing a side slip.
The rudder is stressed for this.
However, as PappyJ mentioned, though, it is not stressed for some movements, even below the 'maneuvering' speed. Please refer to Airbus
FCOM Bulletin Number 828/1 dated June of 2004.
This is what got American Airlines...the Airbus A-300 coming out of JFK....
For whatever reason (poor training, ignorance, etc.), the flying pilot made extreme movements of the rudder back and forth....one way, then the other way....and this is what broke the tail off. This is what overstressed the tail. This is what FCOM Bulletin 828/1 addresses.
But, to be clear, side slips are routine maneuvers....(as in crosswinds)...
and, not-so-routine in engine failures. The rudder is designed for this....is stressed for this. When the B-767 did side slips (video), I sure the captain was not banging the rudder from one limit to the other. This is not how you do a side slip....or a forward slip.
Fly safe,
PantLoad
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However, when landing in a crosswind, you're doing a side slip. When taking off, experiencing an engine failure, you're doing a side slip.
I was, of course, referring to the type of side-slip/forward slip the AC guys needed to do - an altitude loosing maneuver at greater speed and stress.
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Fear of fly by wire.
Once we are over the fear of fly by wire it is quite apparent that the Airbus family are just another aeroplane that will do anything you want until you reach a protection and then it just stops you hurting youself and 300 others.
Having said that if you need to do a side slip that is not assosiated with a cross wind landing you should maybe look at an orbit of a go-around. It is not usual to side-slip transport aircraft.
Having said that if you need to do a side slip that is not assosiated with a cross wind landing you should maybe look at an orbit of a go-around. It is not usual to side-slip transport aircraft.
A320 can be sideslipped in either roll normal or roll direct law. In normal law the technique is a bit unorthodox - when required slip is achieved, bank is maintained with stick in the neutral, rather than with constant stick displacement.
On any transport aeroplane, working as designed, you can kick and hold full rudder, fly till your fuel runs out and nothing much would happen. AA587 got to extreme sideslip that ripped off the vertical stabilizer through series of large and rapidly alternating pedal inputs. Pilot induced oscillation lead to dynamic directional instability. Using the rudder to recover to wings level can save you when all roll control is lost. Otherwise it can turn out to be lethal.
On any transport aeroplane, working as designed, you can kick and hold full rudder, fly till your fuel runs out and nothing much would happen. AA587 got to extreme sideslip that ripped off the vertical stabilizer through series of large and rapidly alternating pedal inputs. Pilot induced oscillation lead to dynamic directional instability. Using the rudder to recover to wings level can save you when all roll control is lost. Otherwise it can turn out to be lethal.
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"3 minutes to do a 360-degree turn"
at 3/4 standard rate? that's when i stopped watching...
technically it's a forward slip.
never wanting to be a monday-morning-armchair-quarterback...s-turns?
the important thing is that they got it on the ground.
at 3/4 standard rate? that's when i stopped watching...
technically it's a forward slip.
never wanting to be a monday-morning-armchair-quarterback...s-turns?
the important thing is that they got it on the ground.
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technically it's a forward slip.
As has been argued before on PPRuNe, forward slip is just an Americanism for a garden variety ordinary everyday ho hum sideslip ... but one used for a specific purpose ...
As has been argued before on PPRuNe, forward slip is just an Americanism for a garden variety ordinary everyday ho hum sideslip ... but one used for a specific purpose ...
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i'm sure that there are plenty of "non-American" publications that quite specifically differentiate between the two and their specific purposes.
this is the "tech" log, no?
this is the "tech" log, no?
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Only time i ever heard this distinction was in the US to be honest.
Wonder why, standard rate only applies up to 180kts, a speed which is well below clean speed for most jets, especially those used in commercial transport services.
at 3/4 standard rate? that's when i stopped watching...
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Gimli Glider...
sideslip in the 320?
can you do sideslip on this plane???
YouTube - (1/5) Air Canada Flight 143 (Gimli Glider)
can you do sideslip on this plane???
YouTube - (1/5) Air Canada Flight 143 (Gimli Glider)
But the Gimli Glider was a B767.
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Wonder why, standard rate only applies up to 180kts, a speed which is well below clean speed for most jets, especially those used in commercial transport services.
This is due to bank limitations.
With a rough approximation 15%TAS = Bank rate 1.
Flying 180KIAS not too high (TAS increases) would give already 27° bank for rate 1. Close to max bank in commercial transport.
Greetings,
Flyer146
