An utterly daft question about aircraft carriers

[Dutchy805]

HMAS Melbourne, 'pinwheel docking with Gannet's'

I was a member of 'Melbourne' ship's company in '65 when the ship docked at Brisbane en-route to Hervey Bay for 'Heeling' trials then, New Guinea, Krakatoa and Guadalcanal.

As tugs approached to dock the ship the Captain sent them packing as he had Fairey Gannets lashed to the flight deck which he used to pull us into our berth.

This is the only occasion in 24 years of RAN/FAA service ['64-'88] on which I saw this operation utilized although I believe our S2 Trackers also performed this 'pinwheeling' procedure.

[18-Wheeler]

Thanks Dutchy, I knew it would work.

[Smilin_Ed]

No Big Deal

What I couldn't understand was the relative positioning of angle deck vs island, leading to turbulence for the landing.

The "burble" as it is called in the USN is no big deal. If you know how to fly an airplane, you just fly through it.

[Centaurus]

A helicopter landing ship designed and built in Spain (I think) is now in Melbourne, Australia, undergoing extensive fitments for its role as a cargo carrier, troop carrier and helicopter carrier. The front deck part of the vessel is upturned like that used for Harrier jump-jet fighter bombers.

Can helicopters lift more weight using the ski-jump principle like Harriers?

[John Farley]

Centaurus

I suspect the ship you mention is the one previously used by the Spanish navy to fly their Harriers (Matadors to them). They used the ski-jump for all the usual Harrier reasons.

As to choppers I am no expert but they can lift more with a rolling takeoff due to translational lift from the rotor disk. Goodness knows whether all the issues of hitting 2-3 g on the ramp just to gain a bit of free time in the air while they accelerate to flying speed would be worth while I can't say but if asked for my best guess I would say a resounding no. The advantages of a ski-jump are totally dependent on being able to accelerate rapidly off the end (.7g ish - the more the better) Does not sound helicopter stuff to me.

[mike-wsm]

Melbourne's skipper may have saved a lot of money by not using tugs. They seem to charge by level of service. One regular arrival would throw a line to the dockside but never to the attendant tug. Sometimes he would let the tug nose him in by pushing with its bow, and other times he would refuse all contact, getting the tug to come up to him stern first and open up, blowing him sideways with propwash. Fine judgement required.

[mike-wsm]

Centaurus - Perhaps they were thinking ahead and making it versatile?


ps - MoD types - sorry to use terms like 'thinking ahead' and 'versatile' - alien to your culture I guess

[Centaurus]

I suspect the ship you mention is the one previously used by the Spanish navy to fly their Harriers (Matadors to them). They used the ski-jump for all the usual Harrier reasons.

Thanks for the info, John F. and others.

Cent.

[asc12]

Regarding operation pinwheel...

The late Neptunus Lex had a first-hand account from CAPT Gray, the CO of the squadron whose Skyraiders were supposed to help the tugs get Essex in to port at Yokosuka.

The Bridges of Toko-ri « Neptunus Lex

[Dan Winterland]

''then you could put money on the fact that the Fisheads would have piled on a bit more speed to ensure they were cloaked in fog ready for your recovery''.


Which is why the USN insists it's carrier Captains are pilots.