LOWI expierence
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
From: Germany
What a polite and meaningful posting!
LOWI-Operation is serious bussiness and that's why serious operators share theire experiences via a mandatory familiarization in the SIM instead of have pilots fishing the depths of the web.
In some cases even a flight to LOWI under supervision in addition to the SIM is required and siginificant paperwork is available in preparation for the SIM.
So - could it be that something isn't quite right here, couldn't it?
Regards, MAX
LOWI-Operation is serious bussiness and that's why serious operators share theire experiences via a mandatory familiarization in the SIM instead of have pilots fishing the depths of the web.
In some cases even a flight to LOWI under supervision in addition to the SIM is required and siginificant paperwork is available in preparation for the SIM.
So - could it be that something isn't quite right here, couldn't it?
Regards, MAX
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
From: Moscow
What a polite and meaningful posting!
LOWI-Operation is serious bussiness and that's why serious operators share theire experiences via a mandatory familiarization in the SIM instead of have pilots fishing the depths of the web.
Max, you are a very serious man in a very serious company
What are you fishing here? How to fly to Moscow - I can tell you with pleasure, but...
Spasibo
LOWI-Operation is serious bussiness and that's why serious operators share theire experiences via a mandatory familiarization in the SIM instead of have pilots fishing the depths of the web.
Max, you are a very serious man in a very serious company
What are you fishing here? How to fly to Moscow - I can tell you with pleasure, but...Spasibo
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: Scandinavia
A couple of years ago we had LOWI on the LVO and maneuvering part for the OPC. Very, very, very good as a training example. Missed approach with single engine when landing from west is a bit scary...
Conclusion, don't go there unless sim session and preparation before.
Conclusion, don't go there unless sim session and preparation before.
Last edited by MD80rookie; 27th December 2009 at 15:02. Reason: typo
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
From: Location: Location:
We had a requirement to visit LOWI prior to attending sim training, we set ourselves VFR weather minima insisted on an easterly approach and also practised a high energy go around from a baulked landing backtracking the ILS to MSA (which was good practise) at our home base.
Under those circumstances it is possible to self brief, we had handling and pax transportation already booked and payed for at MUC so if we didn't get in there was no drama. The pax were 90% convinced they were going to Munich
I agreed with the other crew members that:
If we didn't have the wx - Munich
any unserviceabilities - Munich
If they were approaching from the west - Munich
We additionally kept ourselves very light to ensure that we didn't try to hard on the day.
We also sourced some AOC briefs one from an Airline and in addition from a bizjet operator that was written around an old type that we used to operate so we ensured that we had a lot of performance to hand. Gotchas were the required gradients after approaching 26 and circling for the other end. And the height of the terrain once downwind.
we spent probably two days briefing it together. Theres also a very small benefit to get orientated using the videos available on you tube
Even having subsequently done it in the sim and probably meeting the requirements (I cant remember what they were) to have the special approaches authorised, I still wouldn't go there in pretty much less than the VFR conditions we insisted upon initially. Our sim instructor gave us a heavy OEI departure of 26 and theres not a lot of room for a clean up and being V2+10/-0 instead of V2+5/-0 gave us terrain warnings so check your performance
Theres a load of wx info available.
On the day we had good weather and did the straight in for 26 with no drama and on the way out took a VFR departure up the valley and then a direct KPT which was one of the most memorable departures I can remember.
So it is doable on a private basis, just do all your homework and if you have any doubts whatsoever MUC is for you.
I haven't meant to make light of the place - we got lucky with the weather, if you dont respect the place it will catch you out without doubt. We couldn't have been better briefed and had loads of perf in hand
Under those circumstances it is possible to self brief, we had handling and pax transportation already booked and payed for at MUC so if we didn't get in there was no drama. The pax were 90% convinced they were going to Munich
I agreed with the other crew members that:
If we didn't have the wx - Munich
any unserviceabilities - Munich
If they were approaching from the west - Munich
We additionally kept ourselves very light to ensure that we didn't try to hard on the day.
We also sourced some AOC briefs one from an Airline and in addition from a bizjet operator that was written around an old type that we used to operate so we ensured that we had a lot of performance to hand. Gotchas were the required gradients after approaching 26 and circling for the other end. And the height of the terrain once downwind.
we spent probably two days briefing it together. Theres also a very small benefit to get orientated using the videos available on you tube
Even having subsequently done it in the sim and probably meeting the requirements (I cant remember what they were) to have the special approaches authorised, I still wouldn't go there in pretty much less than the VFR conditions we insisted upon initially. Our sim instructor gave us a heavy OEI departure of 26 and theres not a lot of room for a clean up and being V2+10/-0 instead of V2+5/-0 gave us terrain warnings so check your performance
Theres a load of wx info available.
On the day we had good weather and did the straight in for 26 with no drama and on the way out took a VFR departure up the valley and then a direct KPT which was one of the most memorable departures I can remember.
So it is doable on a private basis, just do all your homework and if you have any doubts whatsoever MUC is for you.
I haven't meant to make light of the place - we got lucky with the weather, if you dont respect the place it will catch you out without doubt. We couldn't have been better briefed and had loads of perf in hand
Last edited by G-SPOTs Lost; 27th December 2009 at 12:17.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 1
From: Sunrise Senior Living
As others have said, BE CAREFUL!!!
In sum, there are only 3 places you can turn a jet aeroplane around in the valley so go arounds, eng fail procedures and baulked landing procedures need to be rehearsed until you can do them in your sleep. No faster than 150kias in the valley unless you are a local and know your way around.
ATC very helpful and will advise on most appropriate procedure for the wx also available to talk to on telephone before departure!
Cheers
mcdhu
In sum, there are only 3 places you can turn a jet aeroplane around in the valley so go arounds, eng fail procedures and baulked landing procedures need to be rehearsed until you can do them in your sleep. No faster than 150kias in the valley unless you are a local and know your way around.
ATC very helpful and will advise on most appropriate procedure for the wx also available to talk to on telephone before departure!
Cheers
mcdhu
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
From: Location: Location:
For ORIENTATION purposes only - watch this at home with a Jepps on you knee. You can clearly see the landmarks on the prescribed tracks when downwind you can see the church at 6:56 or so. You wont be able to make out these landmarks in the sim.
Youtube Link - R26 circle 08
I would only reccommend these kind of conditions when going there for the first time..
There are some more on there.
Youtube Link - R26 circle 08
I would only reccommend these kind of conditions when going there for the first time..
There are some more on there.
