Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

Critacal Dme?

Wikiposts
Search
Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

Critacal Dme?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 26th Dec 2009, 05:44
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Critacal Dme?

Hi: Does any ever been flown to RJFK/KOJ (KAGOSHIMA) Japan? On their STARs, there is a small block mention about CRITICAL DME ,anyone knows what is that for? Thank s.
kuobin is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2009, 06:01
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Japan
Age: 48
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Critical DME has to do with your RNAV Capabilities and availability for the STAR/SID. Japan has not quite embraced pure GPS navagation so for RNAV aircraft you must also have ground based navaids for backup position recognition. So. To answer your question Lets go though the chart. Lets take the Celes Rnav Arrival to RWY 34.

In this case the box on the lower left hand corner (if using Jepps) shows the Critical DME. Let's take the Kajiki VOR for example. it has a DME Gap of 12.5 NM, so basically if the KGE VOR is inop, somewhere in this arrival there would be a 12.5nm gap in coverage of the ground based navaids to calculate DME/DME for your RNAV equipment. Obviously this is probably not a problem because most transport catagory aircraft use a FMS that has GPS/GPS or GPS/DME calculations so you're navigation performance is not degraded significantly. Most operators in Japan have a DME Gap limit for each type of aircraft flown. My aircraft for example has a max DME Gap of 14.0 nm, so if the KGE VOR (which is most restrictive) is INOP I am still ok to fly this arrival. Hope I made it clear as Mud!
alaskabob is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2009, 09:49
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: On the move
Posts: 940
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pretty much as previous post in a nut shell- ALT profile is based on the DME so its critical that you have this at all times
ab33t is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2009, 13:47
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank you so much,But what is DME Gap ?
kuobin is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2009, 08:52
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scandinavia
Age: 47
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From what alaskabob wrote, DME Gap is the distance where you wont have any signal coverage from the navaids the procedure is based upon.

If you have any other equipment onboard, i.e. GPS/GPS you can still fly the procedure accurate.
MD80rookie is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2009, 09:51
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Things are clear now,appreciate you guys.
kuobin is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 20:52
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MC in three
Posts: 10
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks!

Anyone know what TLD means?

its on the RJAA PIGOK SID...
1sloth is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2019, 21:31
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CASEY STATION
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TLD is the critical DME ( station). Its about 20NM NW of Narita. So as described above, if flying an aircraft without GPS (or a NOTAM that terminal RAIM is not available during the expected time using the SID ) and the Criticial DME is NOTAMed inop then fhe RNAV 1 route ( SID or STAR ) is not available for use if the DME GAP exceeds the aircrafts limit ( Category C aircraft limit is 14NM ).

A conventional SID would need to be requested.

Last edited by RUMBEAR; 23rd Oct 2019 at 21:43.
RUMBEAR is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2019, 13:52
  #9 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by alaskabob
Critical DME has to do with your RNAV Capabilities and availability for the STAR/SID. Japan has not quite embraced pure GPS navagation so for RNAV aircraft you must also have ground based navaids for backup position recognition.
That's not the way I understand it. If your FMS uses GPS you can ignore the note. But, if your FMS doesn't have GPS (old RNAV airframe), and instead uses DME/DME, then the critical DME must be operative to use the STAR or SID. KSLC, for example has the same restriction. Most of the time the terminal area has sufficient DME geometry that the note isn't required for the old pre-GPS RNAV airframes.
aterpster is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2019, 16:51
  #10 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Example at KSLC:
aterpster is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.