Headset for B-744
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Headset for B-744
Can anyone give me advise or hints on which headset I should get? I´m on the Boeing 747-400 and it is quite a noisy cockpit. I was thinking about the telex 850, light and comfy or Sennheiser HMEC-46-BV-K ANR which seem very interesing but more bulky and more expensive.
Your views and experience on this would be appreciated.
Fly safe!
Your views and experience on this would be appreciated.
Fly safe!
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Tbone Aviation Headsets.
I’m on the B744 as well and I use TBone Aviation headsets. Have had them for about 8 months and I’m rather pleased with them.
I hate having a headband sitting on top of my head on long-haul flights, it drives me potty!! (not to mention that my hairdo is completely ruined too, haha
)
The TBs appealed to me because of their small size and super light weight. Horses for courses, I suppose.
A few guys in my outfit have them too and they seem to be happy bunnies as well.
They are very professional and a friendly lot, check out their website:
Home - tbone aviation
Good luck finding your headsets!!
Happy contrails,
MC.
I hate having a headband sitting on top of my head on long-haul flights, it drives me potty!! (not to mention that my hairdo is completely ruined too, haha
) The TBs appealed to me because of their small size and super light weight. Horses for courses, I suppose.
A few guys in my outfit have them too and they seem to be happy bunnies as well.
They are very professional and a friendly lot, check out their website:
Home - tbone aviation
Good luck finding your headsets!!
Happy contrails,
MC.
Last edited by MexCrew; 7th Dec 2009 at 22:14.
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i'm on the B738. i wear elacin ER-15 earplugs below our company-supplied sennheiser HMEC-45 ANR. but i just bought the bose qc15 and the difference btw the on-the-ear sennheiser and the over-the-ear bose is stunning. during cruise i took the hmec-45 off and put the bose on. i was so baffled that i thought the ANR on the sennheiser might have been off. but it wasn't! 
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Shouldn't Boeing and your company be advising you on which types to use?
Not many aural warnings go through the headsets, so you need to know how much useful ambient sound is reaching your ears.
Not many aural warnings go through the headsets, so you need to know how much useful ambient sound is reaching your ears.
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I was using the Bose QC-2 headphones on the 744, but the headset cord is not insulated properly, (not TSO'd) and I was getting interference from the side window heat and other wires running up the corner post. Take that for whats its worth. I was vacillating on either the Telex 850 or the Lightspeed Zulu. I ended up with the Lightspeed Zulu for a couple of reasons. I'm trying to save whats left of my hearing and the noise cancelling is absolutely the BEST. Better than the Bose aviation sets!!!! Better than the Sennheiser!! Plus, it has a cool feature, you can plug your i-pod into it, and you won't miss a radio call because it cancels out the music when someone is yakkin, and it keeps you wide awake on the dark and stormy nights in the middle of nowhere while you other mate up front is noddin off! They're kinda spendy, but they are very comfy, and the audio is truly high fidelity. I have heard things with these headsets that I have never heard before from my i-pod.
Folks,
I have used a David Clark 10-13.4 with gel ear seals for many years. Don't use ANR headsets (even though some airlines supply them), that may well blank out things you want to hear.
All DC headsets meet all relevant TSO's, so that is not a problem, and they have the best guarantee of any manufacturer I have come across. Beware of el-cheapo's made for the GA market, there has to be a reason why such a large proportion of the military use D-C in transport/patrol and similar aircraft.
Noise levels in the 747 (all models) is a serious issue, there have been quite a few payouts for industrial deafness, across a range of carriers.
Tootle pip!!
I have used a David Clark 10-13.4 with gel ear seals for many years. Don't use ANR headsets (even though some airlines supply them), that may well blank out things you want to hear.
All DC headsets meet all relevant TSO's, so that is not a problem, and they have the best guarantee of any manufacturer I have come across. Beware of el-cheapo's made for the GA market, there has to be a reason why such a large proportion of the military use D-C in transport/patrol and similar aircraft.
Noise levels in the 747 (all models) is a serious issue, there have been quite a few payouts for industrial deafness, across a range of carriers.
Tootle pip!!
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NSEU
It could be I don't know what I'm talking about but --- don't noise cancelling headsets rely on a constant ambient noise level to set their attenuation threshold. An aural warning through a speaker wouldn't be attenuated. No?
Shouldn't Boeing and your company be advising you on which types to use? Not many aural warnings go through the headsets, so you need to know how much useful ambient sound is reaching your ears.
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Couple of points, having dealt with TSO's and ANR headsets for over 5 years now:
1. TSO certification is about standardized production methods and meeting minimum performance standards. The "minimums" are very low, so attributing interference with window heat, poor audio quality or any other shortcoming to a headset not being TSO'd is really incorrect. There is no TSO testing to evaluate window heat interference with a headset. If there is interference, it is more likely an aircraft problem than a headset.
2. The only ANR headsets which could possibly block critical sounds in the cockpit are the Bose Aviation X, Lightspeed Zulu, and DC's modified with the ANR earpieces. They combine a hefty amount of passive with active noise attenuation. All the rest of the headsets, not an issue.
3. ANR technology uses microphones to compare and cancel noise. Most ANR is most effective against low frequency sounds, not higher frequencies, i.e., the human voice on up, wind noise and higher pitched audio warning tones. So, ANR headsets normally don't block human voice or audio warning tones, unless they are lower frequencies... except if the headset has tons of passive attentuation like the Bose X, Zulu or modified DC's.
Mike
1. TSO certification is about standardized production methods and meeting minimum performance standards. The "minimums" are very low, so attributing interference with window heat, poor audio quality or any other shortcoming to a headset not being TSO'd is really incorrect. There is no TSO testing to evaluate window heat interference with a headset. If there is interference, it is more likely an aircraft problem than a headset.
2. The only ANR headsets which could possibly block critical sounds in the cockpit are the Bose Aviation X, Lightspeed Zulu, and DC's modified with the ANR earpieces. They combine a hefty amount of passive with active noise attenuation. All the rest of the headsets, not an issue.
3. ANR technology uses microphones to compare and cancel noise. Most ANR is most effective against low frequency sounds, not higher frequencies, i.e., the human voice on up, wind noise and higher pitched audio warning tones. So, ANR headsets normally don't block human voice or audio warning tones, unless they are lower frequencies... except if the headset has tons of passive attentuation like the Bose X, Zulu or modified DC's.
Mike
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Thanks for the info, but I'm still a little confused regarding the attenuation. Isn't 744 flight deck wind noise mostly high pitched hissing? What's the point if these headsets are blocking mostly low frequency sound?
I didn't realise the attenuation was based on constant external sound levels. I was thinking they were more advanced than that.
Notwithstanding, our first 744's noise-cancelling headsets blocked TCAS aurals to the point where flight crew couldn't wear them below a certain altitude (above this altitude, the danger was considered less serious!).
Other side-effects:
As previously stated, some headsets are so good, they pick up aircraft "faults". e.g. humming in the audio system on Classic 747's, which has been on the aircraft since they left the factory. With loud background noise, you couldn't hear it. It was so annoying, the flight crew simply couldn't wear the headsets.
The headsets also caused vergito in some people if you only wore one earpad.
As MBlackey says, there are (so-called approved) models which might possibly block sound (passively), so all headsets still need some kind of trial. I still don't see how the company will let you select your own. Not all headsets are compatible with the aircraft electronics.
Rgds.
NSEU
I didn't realise the attenuation was based on constant external sound levels. I was thinking they were more advanced than that.
Notwithstanding, our first 744's noise-cancelling headsets blocked TCAS aurals to the point where flight crew couldn't wear them below a certain altitude (above this altitude, the danger was considered less serious!).
Other side-effects:
As previously stated, some headsets are so good, they pick up aircraft "faults". e.g. humming in the audio system on Classic 747's, which has been on the aircraft since they left the factory. With loud background noise, you couldn't hear it. It was so annoying, the flight crew simply couldn't wear the headsets.
The headsets also caused vergito in some people if you only wore one earpad.
As MBlackey says, there are (so-called approved) models which might possibly block sound (passively), so all headsets still need some kind of trial. I still don't see how the company will let you select your own. Not all headsets are compatible with the aircraft electronics.
Rgds.
NSEU
Folks,
As I more or less said before, the is a very good reason why David Clark headsets are predominant in military/professional use, both fixed and rotary wing. Something over 60% of the western world market, according to the D-C blurb, and I can believe it.
If anybody is going to use a non-TSO headset on anything from Part 135 (or equivalent, or in some countries, any aeronautical radio) up, I would suggest you need specific regulatory approval.
In at least one case, of which I have detailed knowledge, Boeing amended a C.of A. to incorporate a customer choice of ANR headset ("non-TSO") as part of the aircraft equipment, thereby covering this use under the production certificate. No fault of Boeing, the (European made) headset was 'orrible in practice, made HF almost impossible -- but apparently very good for listening to the stereo at home.
One thing that seems to be emerging, ANR headsets do not provide the protection from long term hearing loss, that a really good natural attenuation headset does. As to what frequencies ANR headsets deal with, that is not even constant within the range of an individual manufacturer.
The "definition" of ANR seems to be about as settled as the definition of "organic beer".
Tootle pip!!
As I more or less said before, the is a very good reason why David Clark headsets are predominant in military/professional use, both fixed and rotary wing. Something over 60% of the western world market, according to the D-C blurb, and I can believe it.
If anybody is going to use a non-TSO headset on anything from Part 135 (or equivalent, or in some countries, any aeronautical radio) up, I would suggest you need specific regulatory approval.
In at least one case, of which I have detailed knowledge, Boeing amended a C.of A. to incorporate a customer choice of ANR headset ("non-TSO") as part of the aircraft equipment, thereby covering this use under the production certificate. No fault of Boeing, the (European made) headset was 'orrible in practice, made HF almost impossible -- but apparently very good for listening to the stereo at home.
One thing that seems to be emerging, ANR headsets do not provide the protection from long term hearing loss, that a really good natural attenuation headset does. As to what frequencies ANR headsets deal with, that is not even constant within the range of an individual manufacturer.
The "definition" of ANR seems to be about as settled as the definition of "organic beer".
Tootle pip!!
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There's no FAA requirement that a pilot use a TSO approved headset unless that pilot is replacing an "installed" headset (which was TSO'd) that is part of the type certification equipment for the aircraft.
There is no such thing as an ANR only headset. All ANR headsets provide passive attenuation, also.
ANR most certainly will protect hearing. Any method that attenuates noise to the ears contributes to protecting hearing, whether it is passive or active noise attenuation. Other industries that have noise damaging environments are now starting to use ANR headsets, e.g., engine rooms, industrial manufacturing.
If you want the proof, buy a Bose QC15 on a 30 day trial, and wear it as much as possible during a trip. You'll notice a dramatic decrease in tinnitus and an improvement in hearing acuity. Then, put back on whatever headset you were using. You'll be amazed. If you're not, send it back to Bose for a refund.
Mike
There is no such thing as an ANR only headset. All ANR headsets provide passive attenuation, also.
ANR most certainly will protect hearing. Any method that attenuates noise to the ears contributes to protecting hearing, whether it is passive or active noise attenuation. Other industries that have noise damaging environments are now starting to use ANR headsets, e.g., engine rooms, industrial manufacturing.
If you want the proof, buy a Bose QC15 on a 30 day trial, and wear it as much as possible during a trip. You'll notice a dramatic decrease in tinnitus and an improvement in hearing acuity. Then, put back on whatever headset you were using. You'll be amazed. If you're not, send it back to Bose for a refund.
Mike
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Thank you guys for all the good information, suggestions, discussions and opinions. Now I´m even more confused than before... no, no just kidding. It´s time for some informative decision.
This new revolutionary T-bone headsets are interesting. This mike or mikeless is unbelievable and I´m just not convinced it works well.
This new revolutionary T-bone headsets are interesting. This mike or mikeless is unbelievable and I´m just not convinced it works well.
