Belts below ten

[777newbie]

Hi all,
Not exactly a tech question but are there regulations that state that all pax and crew must be seated with belts fastened below 10000ft?
Some in my outfit turn the sign off at 5000 on very short sectors. I would like to know if this is legal. We don't have anyhing in out co policy regarding this.
Thanks

[Rainboe]

I think you will find there are no regulations apart from company regulations that apply. The company regulations will be accepted by the licensing authority, so in effect, they then become enshrined as what is required. So if there is nothing in your Ops manual, it is absolutely reasonable to do what your captains do.

[Mansfield]

Insofar as the FAA is concerned, FAR 121.311(b) requires everyone to have a seat belt fastened during movement on the ground, takeoff and landing. Otherwise, it defaults to company policy and captain's judgement.

[777newbie]

Thanks guys.

[777newbie]

Taking it one more uphill step.
Any good reasons for the "auto" position switching them off at 10000?
(I can only think that if at 250kts it may be a bit more difficult for the crew to bring us the coffee).
Cheers

[Rainboe]

I think it is just something Boeing build in as a 'take it or leave it' option, We use 20,000' up and 20 minutes to go, which I think is a tad excessive, but if that is what the book says and that is what the cabin crew expect, then that is what must be done. The important thing is to follow the manual because you lay yourself open to disciplinary if someone gets hurt due to avoidance manoeuvre or weather.

[deeceethree]

As long as ther are no extenuating circumstances, I suspect that the Boeing default of 10 000' in the Auto position is just so that, if nobody does anything else, they are turned off somewhere in the climb, and turned on somewhere in the descent. No big deal real really. Perhaps Boeing consulted its customers and found that 10 000' was a reasonable compromise?

[Denti]

Must be optional that auto switching at 10.000. Ours do switch at flaps up or down (off and on respectively). However SOP is to leave them on until cruise or near cruise and on latest at FL100 or 10 minutes prior landing, usually around 20 to landing if the cabin crew wants that.

[411A]

I generally (if conditions allow) switch OFF the seat belt sign at 5000agl...after all, we pilots get thirsty, and our gals make excellect coffee/tea.
No company laid down policy....just the way I like it, SCD.
We also serve hot meals on every sector, and the food ain't bad, either.
At Baku, the catering folks asked us what we would like.
I asked for a New York steak with vegetables...and it was one of the best I've had in a long time. Fresh fruit plate as well. And, sandwiches.
Superb folks in Baku.

[toby320]

well, 10kfeet is the altitud stablished for a sterile cokpit condition and this concept applies for everybody so at least in my company, hence we mantain our seat belts on during this condition.
regards
toby320.

[jimmyg]

Here in Kuwait the DGCA requires seat belts on for pax and sholder harnesses for deck crew till TOC, then on again from TOD. a tad bit exessive but one has to understand that the Regs are from 1960's One can only hope that some day they will make it to the 80's

[whiskey1]

777newbie if you are flying an Australian Registered aircraft then Civil Aviation Order 20.16.3 applies:

Seats
3.1 Each crew member and each passenger shall occupy a seat of an approved type:
(a) during take-off and landing; and
(b) during an instrument approach; and
(c) when the aircraft is flying at a height less than 1000 feet above the
terrain; and
(d) in turbulent conditions:.......
Seat belts and safety harnesses
4.1 Except as provided in subsections 14 and 15 safety harnesses, or seat belts where safety harnesses are not fitted, shall be worn by all persons at the times listed in paragraph 3.1. Seat belts and safety harnesses shall be adjusted to fit the wearer without slack.

[Capt Claret]

777Newbie, I think you have one too many zeros. As whiskey1's post shows, the requirement is one-thousand feet, not ten.

[777newbie]

Thanks again.
As expected, the regs (if any) vary from state to state. Interesting to hear re Kuwait and also that the "auto" function is tweaked as per an airline's requirements.
Cheers.

[stormystormy]

Most Boeings, from a historical perspective:

Seat Belt Sign Switch ON ---> Signs ON

Seat Belt Sign Switch AUTO ---> Signs OFF until the beginning of flap expension. At the beginning of flap extension the Seat Belt Signs illuminate.

Seat Belt Sign Switch OFF ---> Signs OFF, with no AUTOmatic protection.

IF you choose to use AUTO, you are protected if you forget to turn them back on and the signs are then illuminated when required by FAR based upon the configuration of the aircraft.

The same principle applies to the NO SMOKING signs, if operable, except the protection comes from gear extension.

The above is a systems answer, the "when and where" is an OPS question goverened by laws and manuals.......

[computer jockey]

The same principle applies to the NO SMOKING signs, if operable, except the protection comes from gear extension.

Reading that reminds me of the days when smoking was allowed in the cabin. I seem to remember that the No Smoking sign was switched off pretty promptly after take off, presumably so that the nervous could light up asap. I think the Seat Belt and No Smoking signs were switched back on simultaneously for the descent (at least for BA which I mostly flew in those days).

[IndAir967]

In IC we leave it ON ..

Until FL100..
OR
Any Turbulence expected above FL100..
OR
Cabin Crew are lazy to get up..
OR
PAX get too drunk when serving complimentary
drinks over the middle east and far east routes..

Bonne Landings

[WallyWumpus]

I generally (if conditions allow) switch OFF the seat belt sign at 5000agl...after all, we pilots get thirsty, and our gals make excellect coffee/tea.

You inadvertently raise an interesting point Bob, which is that crew release and belts may be one and the same or two different steps. Our crew are up and about at 3000agl, wx allowing, and if on top form can have our drinks with us before the sponsors are released at FL100.

Wally.

[captjns]

My policy is seat belts sign illuminated until close to cruise. Weather permitting, I turn them back on about 25 minutes prior to landing.

Helps the cabin crew prepare their cabin for service and then landing respectively.