Fir Notams
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Europe
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Fir Notams
Hello Gentlemen,
I would like to know whether we are required to carry copies of the FIR NOTAMs for all countries/airspaces that are flown over during a flight?
I belive that JAR OPS 1 requirements are for "relevant NOTAMs". Based on this our company have decided that a copy of the FIR NOTAMs are required however our dispatching company (external) believes that we only need to carry a copy of the aerodrome NOTAMs and that if there were any important FIR NOTAMs then this information would be given to the pilots during the pre-flight briefing. Our dispatching company works with over 20 companies and only we insist on them.
For long flights the list of FIR NOTAMs can be very large. To save printing them and wasting paper we receive them via Blackberry's. I just wonder how other companies approach this subject.
Thanks.
I would like to know whether we are required to carry copies of the FIR NOTAMs for all countries/airspaces that are flown over during a flight?
I belive that JAR OPS 1 requirements are for "relevant NOTAMs". Based on this our company have decided that a copy of the FIR NOTAMs are required however our dispatching company (external) believes that we only need to carry a copy of the aerodrome NOTAMs and that if there were any important FIR NOTAMs then this information would be given to the pilots during the pre-flight briefing. Our dispatching company works with over 20 companies and only we insist on them.
For long flights the list of FIR NOTAMs can be very large. To save printing them and wasting paper we receive them via Blackberry's. I just wonder how other companies approach this subject.
Thanks.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Euroland
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These days there are a host of issues that complicate the subject.
One can almost reasonably argue that for an IFR flight in controlled airspace, ATC are not going to clear you via a route that takes you through a danger area that has been activated by NOTAM. In fact, in Europe this mostly works these days because when routes traverse danger areas they are usually made available or not via the CRAM and your flight plan will be rejected if you can not fly that portion of the route.
But, it is not 100% foolproof. To balance, trawling through 500 notams is not foolproof either and how a filter is applied makes a big difference.
When flying aircraft equipped with DME.DME or VOR.DME RNAV capability the one thing that can be important is removing (NOTAM) u/s facilities from the list that can be used to determine position. It is very easy for most pre-flight briefing systems to produce a list of all the U/S DME's in the world and the list is not that long from day to day........even shorter if it is filtered to make it more route specific.
Even easier to upload them via ACARS / AFIS
My understanding is that you have to carry "relevant notams". Therefore, in terms of Enroute, I carry ones that are relevant to my planned flight including diversions and by relevant I mean that are or could cause an effect on the flight - usually very few.
I apply the same logic to aerodrome notams - I don't carry non-relevant notams i.e. no VFR ones when IFR and no notams that only apply outside the possible times that I am operating there.
Even trans-atlantic the list becomes quite short.
There is also the issue of what you use for Part C eroute and terminal charts eg Jepp / Aerad etc and how they incorporate NOTAMS into the publication. When this is established, one can put a cut-off time period before which notams are (should be!!) included in the charts or the chart bulletins.
How often do you read a notam saying that the ILS minima at xyz are increased to nnn only to find that the Jepp chart has already incorporated them?
So depending on your operation there may be a number of ways to reduce the amount of paper that has to be printed prior to flight.
As to electronic copies - where I come from we still need them in paper form as well as the weather and they are part of the post flight report package which the company audit and keep for a period of time as per EU-ops. Most ramp checks have involved having a look at them also.
Much also depends on who produces your plan - a computer or a certified dispatcher who's responsibilities are specified in the OM.
One can almost reasonably argue that for an IFR flight in controlled airspace, ATC are not going to clear you via a route that takes you through a danger area that has been activated by NOTAM. In fact, in Europe this mostly works these days because when routes traverse danger areas they are usually made available or not via the CRAM and your flight plan will be rejected if you can not fly that portion of the route.
But, it is not 100% foolproof. To balance, trawling through 500 notams is not foolproof either and how a filter is applied makes a big difference.
When flying aircraft equipped with DME.DME or VOR.DME RNAV capability the one thing that can be important is removing (NOTAM) u/s facilities from the list that can be used to determine position. It is very easy for most pre-flight briefing systems to produce a list of all the U/S DME's in the world and the list is not that long from day to day........even shorter if it is filtered to make it more route specific.
Even easier to upload them via ACARS / AFIS
My understanding is that you have to carry "relevant notams". Therefore, in terms of Enroute, I carry ones that are relevant to my planned flight including diversions and by relevant I mean that are or could cause an effect on the flight - usually very few.
I apply the same logic to aerodrome notams - I don't carry non-relevant notams i.e. no VFR ones when IFR and no notams that only apply outside the possible times that I am operating there.
Even trans-atlantic the list becomes quite short.
There is also the issue of what you use for Part C eroute and terminal charts eg Jepp / Aerad etc and how they incorporate NOTAMS into the publication. When this is established, one can put a cut-off time period before which notams are (should be!!) included in the charts or the chart bulletins.
How often do you read a notam saying that the ILS minima at xyz are increased to nnn only to find that the Jepp chart has already incorporated them?
So depending on your operation there may be a number of ways to reduce the amount of paper that has to be printed prior to flight.
As to electronic copies - where I come from we still need them in paper form as well as the weather and they are part of the post flight report package which the company audit and keep for a period of time as per EU-ops. Most ramp checks have involved having a look at them also.
Much also depends on who produces your plan - a computer or a certified dispatcher who's responsibilities are specified in the OM.
