Alternate Airport Requirement
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Alternate Airport Requirement
Hi all, the following question might sound silly to some people, but it developed quite a bit of discussion among a few people. Can an airport be used as an alternate if its scheduled to be closed before you reach your planned destination? Scenario; alternate airport X closes at 11pm, schedule arrival time to destination airport Y is also 11pm, flying time from Y to X aprox 30mins. Can airport X be used as an alternate? Tried to look it up, couldnt find anything with reference to this.
Thanks...
Thanks...
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Hi,
From my point of view, if the Alternate airport is closed at your ETA at destination, we CANNOT nominate it as an alternate as it will not be available for diversion should it be necessary. Further more, as per SOPs, the alternate airport availability is checked for the period ETA (alternate) +- 1 hour.
Of course, there is an option to dispatch without an ALTN. A dispensation from various authorities is needed should it be necessary to dispatch a flight without an ALTERNATE and of course we top it up with as much fuel as possible and the weather is excellent.
My 1 cent worth,
Cheers
From my point of view, if the Alternate airport is closed at your ETA at destination, we CANNOT nominate it as an alternate as it will not be available for diversion should it be necessary. Further more, as per SOPs, the alternate airport availability is checked for the period ETA (alternate) +- 1 hour.
Of course, there is an option to dispatch without an ALTN. A dispensation from various authorities is needed should it be necessary to dispatch a flight without an ALTERNATE and of course we top it up with as much fuel as possible and the weather is excellent.
My 1 cent worth,
Cheers
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Is it realy closed or has it only a restriction on the Operating Hours?
We have in Germany several airports which are "closed" during nighttime, but can be used as a diversion airport.
We have in Germany several airports which are "closed" during nighttime, but can be used as a diversion airport.
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Being pedantic, now, but it could be planned as a diversion airport assuming the diversion is made before closing - ie not from a g/a at destination. If a div is required to be nominated you would still need one that is available after g/a. The only advantage I can see there would be for nominating a suitable 'commercial' div. if, for example, destination went 'below limits' en route, but using a more 'fuel efficient' div for the g/a case. Bit of a paper exercise, really
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Hi, BOAC
That would be something like a Pre-determined point procedure?
I guess you can do it provided there are no other destination alternates available within reach after ETA.
That would be something like a Pre-determined point procedure?
I guess you can do it provided there are no other destination alternates available within reach after ETA.
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Not really, MB - I'm talking about making an early decision to land at a company base which may close after ETA at destination rather than g/a at destination and go to a closer non-company weather alternate. All a bit theoretical 'cos it really comes down to sensible planning/decision making in the cockpit rather than 'alternate flight planning' issues.
BOAC,
True enough, but this wouldn't meet the requirements of a filed alternate- more like an en-route contingency. As you say, there would still be the requiement for an available alternate from g/a to landing at the alternate (unless,as lion-g pointed out, you meet the requirements for not using an alternate, or are in Australia, where we don't bother with such things!!)
True enough, but this wouldn't meet the requirements of a filed alternate- more like an en-route contingency. As you say, there would still be the requiement for an available alternate from g/a to landing at the alternate (unless,as lion-g pointed out, you meet the requirements for not using an alternate, or are in Australia, where we don't bother with such things!!)
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It all depends on local regulations...
EDDN/NUE for example operates around the clock for stage 3 airplanes.
However, you cannot go there if the reason for your diversion is simply that you didn't make it to the destination before night curfew fell.
EDDT/TXL closes for scheduled flights at 2300 local, will accept landings until 2400 local if the scheduled time was before 2300. However, they will accept diversions from EDDB/SXF around the clock!
However, you cannot go there if the reason for your diversion is simply that you didn't make it to the destination before night curfew fell.
EDDT/TXL closes for scheduled flights at 2300 local, will accept landings until 2400 local if the scheduled time was before 2300. However, they will accept diversions from EDDB/SXF around the clock!
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Originally Posted by wiz
True enough, but this wouldn't meet the requirements of a filed alternate
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Hi all, thanks for the replies soo far. This is some what of a grey area in my company's SOP and local regulations.Would love further discussions on this.
I assume that's your company's SOP. I'd love to see that somewhere as a regulation.
Airport closed.
So using my scenario, the airport must be open till 1130pm correct?
by lion-g
From my point of view, if the Alternate airport is closed at your ETA at destination, we CANNOT nominate it as an alternate as it will not be available for diversion should it be necessary. Further more, as per SOPs, the alternate airport availability is checked for the period ETA (alternate) +- 1 hour.
From my point of view, if the Alternate airport is closed at your ETA at destination, we CANNOT nominate it as an alternate as it will not be available for diversion should it be necessary. Further more, as per SOPs, the alternate airport availability is checked for the period ETA (alternate) +- 1 hour.
by pilotms
Is it realy closed or has it only a restriction on the Operating Hours?
Is it realy closed or has it only a restriction on the Operating Hours?
by Wizofoz
No, it can't be used. It must be available for use at the latest ETA to the alternate.
No, it can't be used. It must be available for use at the latest ETA to the alternate.
- it would in a smuch as it 'notifies' the filed alternate and gives them the right to refuse the FP if circumstances pertain? I did say it was pedantry
So using my scenario, the airport must be open till 1130pm correct?
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Hi,
Here's what I got from the net :-
Destination alternate. An alternate aerodrome to which an aircraft may proceed should it become either impossible or inadvisable to land at the aerodrome of intended landing.
For a flight to be conducted in accordance with the instrument flight rules, at least one destination alternate aerodrome shall be selected and specified in the operational and ATS flight plans, unless:
a) the duration of the flight and the meteorological conditions prevailing are such that there is reasonable certainty that, at the estimated time of arrival at the aerodrome of intended landing, and for a reasonable period before and after such time, the approach and landing may be made under visual meteorological conditions; or
b) the aerodrome of intended landing is isolated and there is no suitable destination alternate aerodrome.
Note: The aerodrome from which a flight departs may also be an en-route or a destination alternate aerodrome for that flight.
(ICAO Annex 6: Operation of Aircraft, Chapter 4, Section 4.3.4)
That's ICAO's recommendation.
Here's what I got from the net :-
Destination alternate. An alternate aerodrome to which an aircraft may proceed should it become either impossible or inadvisable to land at the aerodrome of intended landing.
For a flight to be conducted in accordance with the instrument flight rules, at least one destination alternate aerodrome shall be selected and specified in the operational and ATS flight plans, unless:
a) the duration of the flight and the meteorological conditions prevailing are such that there is reasonable certainty that, at the estimated time of arrival at the aerodrome of intended landing, and for a reasonable period before and after such time, the approach and landing may be made under visual meteorological conditions; or
b) the aerodrome of intended landing is isolated and there is no suitable destination alternate aerodrome.
Note: The aerodrome from which a flight departs may also be an en-route or a destination alternate aerodrome for that flight.
(ICAO Annex 6: Operation of Aircraft, Chapter 4, Section 4.3.4)
That's ICAO's recommendation.
