Noses -

[old-timer]

I was looking at the Comet 4 nose at DX last weekend & was struck by how similar the shape is to the 787, just an observation but strange that two a/c of groundbreaking design (for their time) should have similar noses.

[flyboyike]

This one has a lot of potential, I fear.

[CaptainSandL]

I will say it first... It is also nearly identical to the Caravelle.

[kenparry]

I will say it first... It is also nearly identical to the Caravelle.

Oh yes! But do you know which came first, and which is the licensed copy?

[Loose rivets]

Talking of noses...British Eagle had Viscounts that were pressurized into the nose. They wanted - indeed did - fit 12" dishes for the first radars. This meant that they had to create a pressure bulkhead behind the nose area. Fine, they'd got the jigs...or had they?

Story goes - or went, it was some time ago That the company had sold the jigs shortly before the requirement for the mod. 14k quid. You can see why they were tempted, you could buy a fine house in acreage for that sum in those days.

However, now they had to pay for the aircraft to be modded. 14k quid. Each.

I did some of the first flights with the new kit, and these stories were fixed in my mind. Mind you, I'm open to suggestions that they are apocryphal, or that my brain is fading, it was a long time ago.

[old-timer]

Reg Evans

Loose rivets; did you know Reg Evans, he was mostly VC-10 but did work on the Weybridge range of a/c, I worked with him in the early nineties, one of the old school, I lost touch with him a few years back sadly.




Ref; the Caravelle nose, I heard they used the Comet nose under licence for the Caravele, either way it's one & the same.

[Jig Peter]

deH nose

As de Havillands had all the complex jigging needed for reduxing the nose, it seemed sensible for Sud Aviation to go there - economical and good for both parties.

[ChristiaanJ]

Originally Posted by old-timer

I was looking at the Comet 4 nose at DX last weekend & was struck by how similar the shape is to the 787...

Do you really think so?
I always considered the Comet nose fairly unique in the way it was shaped and more "pointy", with the cockpit windscreen "blended" into the shape.
The 787 to me looks far more like the other later Boeing and Airbuses, blunter and with a distinct discontinuity where the windscreen "meets" the rest of the nose shape.

CJ

PS I've seen the DX Comet, and the one at Brunty. For the 787 I only have photos to go on.

PS2 Yes the Caravelle nose was licensed from dH. However,I don't know how many were actually built by dH, or whether it was only for the prototypes.

[Loose rivets]

Loose rivets; did you know Reg Evans,

Don't remember the name, but I would almost certainly remember the face if he was connected to the 1-11s being developed/supplied.

John Hacket used to bring the aircraft over for the first training of our training captains. He always said there was a co-pilot, but he was mostly invisible.

[barit1]

I'm convinced the nose of the VFW614 came from the same jigs as the F28.

[ChristiaanJ]

barit1,
Sorry to disappoint you.
Look at Wikipedia for VFW-614, which happens to have a good side-view photo.
Then look at F-28 photos.

Exactly the same as the difference between Comet and 787 mentioned earlier....
The VFW-614 nose is stubbier than that of the Comet, but again the windscreen has been "blended in", which is not the case for the F-28.

CJ

[Denti]

Actually the windshield is pretty blended for the 787 as well.



compared to the Comet:



A certain similarity is there, but some differences too.

[ChristiaanJ]

Thanks, Denti!
I hadn't seen a photo from that exact angle.
So old-timer is right, and there are definite similarities, compared to earlier-generation aircraft.
No need for a droop-nose yet, though...

CJ

[glhcarl]

The main difference between the 787 and the Comet is that the 787 has curved windsheld and the Comet windshield are flat.

[Speedbird48]

The early Caravelle noses were made at Hatfield and trucked over to Toulouse.

I remember seeing them near Uxbridge when i was riding my bike back from Denham.

Speedbird 48.

[Speedbird48]

The Comet originally had curved windshields. I flew for East African and we had curved ones. Then we leased some ex-BOAC ones and they had the two main panels flat.

Try an approach on a dark wet night into somewhere in Africa with a curved windscreen sometime!!!!!

Speedbird 48.

[old-timer]

Cheers Denti

Cheers Denti, confims my observations

[411A]

Try an approach on a dark wet night into somewhere in Africa with a curved windscreen sometime!!!!!

Well...I do this from time to time in an L1011, and it most certainly has curved windscreens...so, what is the problem?
Something unique to the Comet, perhaps?

[Rainboe]

The window size and shape were significantly different between the Caravelle and the Comet. It made them look very different types. Most people would not spot the similarity between the designs because of it. It does bring it home to you now seeing the 787 how trendsetting and leading the Comet nose design was for its time back in the 40s.

Simply as a totally pointless fact that nobody knows. Imagine a large cone standing on its base. Grab the point at the top, and move sideways with the base flat and steady so you have a leaning over cone. Then slice a horizontal section in the side. That is apparently the sort of jig they use to shape all the 747 windows. I read that in a 747 article years ago. It has improved my life immeasurably every since. It just sort of 'stuck' there.

It doesn't matter how well made the windows are, curved windows totally suck for photography out of the flightdeck. I take a lot of pictures from the flightdeck. You get the best ones from 737 windows. The 757 is dreadful as ALL the windows are curved and any decent photographs are almost impossible.

[old-timer]

ovals

That's interesting history about the 747 windows Rainboe, I guess they learned the lesson well from the original Comet design that small radii pax windows were not such a good idea for pressurised a/c.

It's interesting to see the other thread just started ref' composite V metallic structures, that will open a very large can of worms I imagine.