Seneca no 3 greens if nav lights on?!?!
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Seneca no 3 greens if nav lights on?!?!
Hello Peeps!
Having just had a mind focusing experience in a Seneca, I've been told that "all senecas" have this problem. When the nav lights are on - the 3 greens are off! No matter whether the gear is down or not.
Can anyone shed any (green) light on this?
TIA
Welliewanger
Having just had a mind focusing experience in a Seneca, I've been told that "all senecas" have this problem. When the nav lights are on - the 3 greens are off! No matter whether the gear is down or not.
Can anyone shed any (green) light on this?
TIA
Welliewanger
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This is standard on many Pipers, 28Rs,32Rs, Senecas etc.
As squealing pig says, they are not off, but dimmed and therefore not noticeable in sunlight.
When you select gear down and you don't subsequently get the 3 greens, always ensure the nav lights are off, before adopting headless chicken mode
(Its a classic instructors trick to quietly switch the nav lights on and then await the student's reaction in due course.)
As squealing pig says, they are not off, but dimmed and therefore not noticeable in sunlight.
When you select gear down and you don't subsequently get the 3 greens, always ensure the nav lights are off, before adopting headless chicken mode
(Its a classic instructors trick to quietly switch the nav lights on and then await the student's reaction in due course.)
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Seneca no 3 greens
It happened to me many moons ago at Biggin flying G-BBLU a Seneca 1.
Did the usual re-cycling gear etc plus fly past the tower and landed with
fire engine waiting on taxi-way. CFI not amused saying I shud have know navs being on ( it was a murky day ) meant greens would not illuminate.
Later models I understand do not have the same problem.
Senecadriver
Did the usual re-cycling gear etc plus fly past the tower and landed with
fire engine waiting on taxi-way. CFI not amused saying I shud have know navs being on ( it was a murky day ) meant greens would not illuminate.
Later models I understand do not have the same problem.
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Aaah, the oldest trick in the book wrt the Seminole at least... put the nav lights on and hey presto... Gear down, three... wait, the what? Go around!
Strange dimming feature based on the assumption that nav lights are only used during nighttime.
Strange dimming feature based on the assumption that nav lights are only used during nighttime.
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Having just had a mind focusing experience in a Seneca, I've been told that "all senecas" have this problem. When the nav lights are on - the 3 greens are off! No matter whether the gear is down or not.
The gear lights are dimmed when the nav lights are on. If it's daytime you may not see the gear lights at all. This illustrates just one more reason it's important to know your aircraft systems.
System logic in your airplane (indeed many airplanes) uses the nav/position lights to tell the airplane when it's night. At night when you illuminate the position lights, the gear lights are dimmed to prevent blinding you.
If you drop the gear and don't see the lights, one of your first actions should be to check the nav lights and see if they're on.
If you get two greens showing and an unilluminated third, try removing the red 'gear unsafe' light from its holder and replacing it in the unilluminated position. If it illuminates (red) you know you have three wheels safely down and need to replace one of the green bulbs.
Less stressful to all concerned than declaring a MAYDAY and conducting flypasts before landing on a foam carpet on three perfectly good wheels!
Of course, you should only try this when the situation allows: ideally get your co-pilot/instructor to help (one flies, the other fiddles with the light bulbs). If you're on your own, give yourself time and space to accomplish this safely. We don't want another 'Everglades' scenario!
Less stressful to all concerned than declaring a MAYDAY and conducting flypasts before landing on a foam carpet on three perfectly good wheels!
Of course, you should only try this when the situation allows: ideally get your co-pilot/instructor to help (one flies, the other fiddles with the light bulbs). If you're on your own, give yourself time and space to accomplish this safely. We don't want another 'Everglades' scenario!
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Weird, the Senecas we used during initial training had an extra NIGHT/DAY lighting switch between both annunciator panels to control cockpit lighting and gear indicator light intensity. Could have been a factory build custom modification though. I guess the red gear warn annunciator light and the aural landing gear warning horn is standard on other senecas?
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Wow, lots of responses, thanks.
I am aware of the lights dimming with the nav lights, however, it was sunset and the sun was behind a very big cloud, so pretty dark already. Maybe the system dimmed it too much, or maybe a wiring fault meant the "dimmed" circuit, was just "off".
Lesson learnt
I am aware of the lights dimming with the nav lights, however, it was sunset and the sun was behind a very big cloud, so pretty dark already. Maybe the system dimmed it too much, or maybe a wiring fault meant the "dimmed" circuit, was just "off".
Lesson learnt
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Not only the Seneca
Not only the Seneca has dimmed u/c lights when the nav lights are on.
I think most Piper aircraft of that era Aztec, Cherokee Arrow, Lance to name but a few have the same problem.
A number of pilots do fly with nav lights on during the day, if you are not that currant on these types you can get caught out.
So remember if flying during daytime when comming in to land and you see no greens check your nav lights first to see if they are on then switch them off and all being well you will have nice green lighhts??
You could do a flypast and if there is air traffic there and they confirm you have them down, some controllers might say about you nav lights.
I think most Piper aircraft of that era Aztec, Cherokee Arrow, Lance to name but a few have the same problem.
A number of pilots do fly with nav lights on during the day, if you are not that currant on these types you can get caught out.
So remember if flying during daytime when comming in to land and you see no greens check your nav lights first to see if they are on then switch them off and all being well you will have nice green lighhts??
You could do a flypast and if there is air traffic there and they confirm you have them down, some controllers might say about you nav lights.
A and C
I would be carefull about calling anyone stupid since you are not being very bright yourself.
The green gear lights have absolutely nothing to do with the operation of the landing gear they simply indicate whether the gear leg is down and locked (green on ) and the red light tells you nothing about the position of the gear. The only thing the red light positively indicates is that the hydraulic power pack is recieving electrical power (red on). Obviously this should not occur with the gear fully up or down and the red light should be out. However it is perfectly possible for the gear to be down and the red light to be illuminated.
If one green light is not illuminated and the red unsafe light is out than the most likely cause is a burnt out bulb. Since all the bulbs and bulb holders are the same except for the color than it makes perfect sense to try removing the not illuminated green light and fitting the red bulb. Obviously you place the aircraft in a safe position or turn over control to the right seater before starting any trouble shooting. After the exchange, If the red light you have placed in the green gear position, illuminates, it means the gear down microswitch has closed and the gear is down and safe. Go ahead and make a normal landing and then fill out the appropriate maintainance defect documents. If the red gear unsafe light is illuminated with the gear handle in the down position do not fiddle with the bulbs, go to the emergency checklist. Similarly if the red light is out and you go ahead and exchange the bulbs but it will not illuminate in the gear position holder, you have a real gear problem and you should go to the emergency checklist
I would be carefull about calling anyone stupid since you are not being very bright yourself.
The green gear lights have absolutely nothing to do with the operation of the landing gear they simply indicate whether the gear leg is down and locked (green on ) and the red light tells you nothing about the position of the gear. The only thing the red light positively indicates is that the hydraulic power pack is recieving electrical power (red on). Obviously this should not occur with the gear fully up or down and the red light should be out. However it is perfectly possible for the gear to be down and the red light to be illuminated.
If one green light is not illuminated and the red unsafe light is out than the most likely cause is a burnt out bulb. Since all the bulbs and bulb holders are the same except for the color than it makes perfect sense to try removing the not illuminated green light and fitting the red bulb. Obviously you place the aircraft in a safe position or turn over control to the right seater before starting any trouble shooting. After the exchange, If the red light you have placed in the green gear position, illuminates, it means the gear down microswitch has closed and the gear is down and safe. Go ahead and make a normal landing and then fill out the appropriate maintainance defect documents. If the red gear unsafe light is illuminated with the gear handle in the down position do not fiddle with the bulbs, go to the emergency checklist. Similarly if the red light is out and you go ahead and exchange the bulbs but it will not illuminate in the gear position holder, you have a real gear problem and you should go to the emergency checklist
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 2nd Sep 2009 at 02:19.
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Undercarriage and Navigation Lights
This has been a problem with using navigation lights in daytime. I remember the Piper Aztec and Apache from the 1960's had this system.
As others have said know your systems.
Tmb
As others have said know your systems.
Tmb