When to select flaps up in a A320?

[John Citizen]

Extract directly from the A320 Flight Crew Training manual :

Suplementary Information
Adverse Weather
TAKE-OFF
For takeoff in high turbulence, the flight crew must wait for the target speed +20 kt (limited to VFE-5)
before retracting the slats/flaps (e.g. the flight crew must wait for F+20 kt before setting Flaps 1).

No girlish behaviour here

The book (FCTM) says you MUST fly this way, but doesn't look like some pilots are aware of this and only fly by the FCOM SOP section (where it says flaps retracted at F/S speed).

I also wasn't aware of this (FCTM procedure) until now

Definitetly worth discussion I say.

[Retire2015]

So in this circumstance of high turbulence:

Accelerating through S speed, I would verbalize "I am going to let the speed build another 20 knots before retracting flaps due to this turbulence."

The practice of verbalizing any variation from the norm is my normal mode of operation - this way your partner is in the loop with your thinking and intentions.

R

[MU3001A]

Forgive my ignorance, but how are we defining high turbulence and how might one differentiate it from say large turbulence or tall turbulence?

[TyroPicard]

John Citizen
I am tempted to point out post #2 but that's a bit like putting my hand on the flap lever before your call..

Very relevant when selecting Flap 1 but not Flap 0, on a heavy aircraft S speed is close to Flap auto-retract speed. In high (sic) turbulence at max weight auto-retract will probably happen as you accelerate, due to speed fluctuations - all as designed and you still have the slats working for you. The trick is to stay below VFE until the flaps are retracted - the VMAX tape moves to a higher speed when the flaps start to retract.

And to take retire2015's point a little further, on a turbulent day this is a good subject to include in the T/O brief - that way the PNF is already in the loop from the start.

[porch monkey]

Finally, someone has hit the nail on the head. Retire 2015. TALKING to the other pilot, be they Captain or F/O, especially during the brief. Doing that has meant I've never had to feel that "they" were forcing me to do anything. I've also learned a great deal from their experience, when I've asked about the different ways they work within the FCOM/OPs Man etc.

[Jimmy Do Little]

Just use - and brief - the use of the "Auto-Retract" system (1+f to 1 automatically). Perfectly acceptable per the FCOM. The issue should then solve itself.

[PappyJ]

The book (FCTM) says you MUST fly this way, but doesn't look like some pilots are aware of this and only fly by the FCOM SOP section (where it says flaps retracted at F/S speed).

A regular review of the FCTM and the Supplementary Techniques section of FCOM3 is worthwhile reading.