Black Boxes (FDRs)
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Sorry, to make it clear, Satlink FDR data upload initiated on selecting 7700 on the transponder.
SATLINK could default to highest priority in such a situation to allow greatest bandwidth.
SATLINK could default to highest priority in such a situation to allow greatest bandwidth.
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Having started this thread, it is apparent from subsequent comments that the idea is not completely impossible, but expensive to implement or to retrofit.
So I suggest a simplified, much cheaper idea (perhaps interim) with only one parameter in the telemetry, GPS location. If a GPS location becomes static or ceases completely, this MIGHT indicate a problem. Then in the event of an accident there would then at least be a narrower area in which to search for the FDR.
Very similar has already been used in gliding competitions. Telemetry from GPS is used to show competitors’ positions. In one recent contest in New Zealand a pilot crashed. Unfortunately, he was killed and the organisers didn’t at the time notice his stationary GPS readout. I had the benefit of hindsight when watching the replay already aware of the crash and noticed the stationary GPS. Software that detects stationary or loss of GPS would presumably be very simple.
Is this an impractical idea?
Jack
So I suggest a simplified, much cheaper idea (perhaps interim) with only one parameter in the telemetry, GPS location. If a GPS location becomes static or ceases completely, this MIGHT indicate a problem. Then in the event of an accident there would then at least be a narrower area in which to search for the FDR.
Very similar has already been used in gliding competitions. Telemetry from GPS is used to show competitors’ positions. In one recent contest in New Zealand a pilot crashed. Unfortunately, he was killed and the organisers didn’t at the time notice his stationary GPS readout. I had the benefit of hindsight when watching the replay already aware of the crash and noticed the stationary GPS. Software that detects stationary or loss of GPS would presumably be very simple.
Is this an impractical idea?
Jack
Join Date: Feb 2004
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The only circumstances where the FDR can record data different to the crew is when the source data is ok, but the display system is faulty.
An FDR/CVR datadump system via Satcom should probably be independent of crew actions (but with a manual backup). Not only should it be able to transmit a record of past events, but current events, too (To me, that sounds like a lot of data being transmitted).
A datadump system would need all the components feeding the DFDR and CVR and the Satcom system to be electrically powered (IRU's, system busses, etc). Currently, many of these are on the main AC busses, so as soon as you lose these, the system becomes less than helpful. The alternative is battery power, but you really don't want these devices sucking up battery power if that's all you have left.
I find it odd that many aircraft don't have a low gain Satcom antenna system dedicated to data transmission, which doesn't rely on the power hungry high gain system (some of our Boeing aircraft have both, with the high gain system dedicated to voice and the low gain system dedicated to data ... unless the low gain system fails).
Rgds.
NSEU
Cunning Artificer
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The key point is value for money.
We'd be downloading large amounts of data into the ground distribution systems (only two available) at enormous cost, nearly all of which would be the routine dross that we already collect for free after each successful flight and put into our FOQA and Reliability Analysis programmes. For example, its the cost of ground distribution that already leads many operators to ignore ACARS completely while those that do use ACARS limit the data to just the OOOI and whatever reports they they need for Maintrol/Ops control. Downlinking, in real time, everything that the DFDR records, would be an enormous cost to pay for data that we don't need.
For the very, very rare occasions when an aircraft goes down, unpredictable manouvres that occur during a departure from controlled flight would result in data loss for the actual event. The only time we'd get useful accident data would be for CFIT. That's a lot of money to pay for little return. If its the accident investigators (in other words, government agencies) that want the data, let them pay for the collection and distribution charges.
We'd be downloading large amounts of data into the ground distribution systems (only two available) at enormous cost, nearly all of which would be the routine dross that we already collect for free after each successful flight and put into our FOQA and Reliability Analysis programmes. For example, its the cost of ground distribution that already leads many operators to ignore ACARS completely while those that do use ACARS limit the data to just the OOOI and whatever reports they they need for Maintrol/Ops control. Downlinking, in real time, everything that the DFDR records, would be an enormous cost to pay for data that we don't need.
For the very, very rare occasions when an aircraft goes down, unpredictable manouvres that occur during a departure from controlled flight would result in data loss for the actual event. The only time we'd get useful accident data would be for CFIT. That's a lot of money to pay for little return. If its the accident investigators (in other words, government agencies) that want the data, let them pay for the collection and distribution charges.
Last edited by Blacksheep; 25th Jun 2009 at 09:21.
