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AF447

Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:08
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Tail section

Thanks for posting the links yorkshireguy, for those having problems accessing the image from the FAB link, I uploaded one of them to imagesack:


Looks like a fairly intact (save from some damage on the rudder's base) vertical stabiliser.
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:09
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First glance looks to me like a carbon copy of AA. Not implying the same cause, just that the tail section appears to have failed at the same place.
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:17
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Nuclear sub operating depth

I note that CNN are reporting seabed depths in the search location as being between 6000m and 8000m.

A quick lookup indicates that modern nuclear submarines have a maximum operating depth (in peacetime) of less than 500m.
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:21
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No problem. I am no expert, but wanted to share the pictures as not seen them anywhere else and may give a clue of some sort. It does look like a very similar picture to the A.A crash in 2001 when the rudder was found.

Here is the other picture in case people have trouble with the links:-

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Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:28
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Sources of purported pilot report of strong turbulence

From Le Figaro (04/06/09):

Refusant à ce stade d'interpréter la cascade de messages d'alerte Acars transmis par l'appareil peu avant le crash, M. Arslanian a simplement précisé mercredi que le pilote du vol AF 447 a évoqué «de fortes turbulences» lors de son ultime contact avec les contrôleurs du ciel brésiliens.
Refusing at this stage to interpret the stream of ACARS message alerts transmitted by the aircraft shortly before the crash, Mr. Arslanian (head of BEA) simply specified Wednesday that the pilot of flight AF 447 evoked “strong turbulence” at the time of his last contact with the Brazilian ATC.
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:42
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Nuclear sub operating depth

Yes, subs usually hover around 100m below the surface. However, more importantly, subs have listening capabilities that can detect a whisper at 8000m, which is why one was sent to the crash site.

Last edited by MartinS; 8th Jun 2009 at 16:58.
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:42
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Oxygen masks

According to a french website, some passengers may have had donned their oxygen masks.

A silent tought here for these people.
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:45
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Tail

Been reading all your posts with interest but have one question.Now the tail section has been recovered, where exactly are the FDR & CVR's located in the tail section?
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:49
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Flyguy2006

Only the vertical stabilizer has been recovered, according to the posted images, and was separated from the aft fuselage, where the recorders are mounted.

I'd guess the aft fuselage is on the bottom, with the recorders. Question is when the two became separated...
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:54
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I am no expert, but wanted to share the pictures as not seen them anywhere else and may give a clue of some sort. It does look like a very similar picture to the A.A crash in 2001 when the rudder was found.
What will matter is where the vertical stabilizer was found. If it is close to other wreckage, I would think it is likely it was still attached for most of the descent. Can't read too much into this without more information.
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:58
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Does anybody know if a large object travelling at high speed impacting water would be detectable to the seismologists who monitor earth tremors and 'quakes?
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 16:58
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How fast would the pitot have to freeze for all three failures to be reported in just one message? If they had failed at say 5 min intervals there would be three seperate messages as each failed? How far apart would they have to fail to be sent as seperate messages or doesn't it work like that?
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 17:03
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http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6310/dfdrcvryz0.jpg
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 17:11
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Vertical fin fracture plane.

Looks like it fractured about where I've drawn the green line. Rudder is still attached.

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Old 8th Jun 2009, 17:12
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Does anybody know if a large object travelling at high speed impacting water would be detectable to the seismologists who monitor earth tremors and 'quakes?
I doubt it but when the WTC collapsed the shock was detected about 300 miles away. Some info on that here..

Seismic Detection

The aircraft impacts registered local magnitude (ML) 0.9 and 0.7, indicating minimal earth shaking as a result. The subsequent collapse of the towers, on the contrary, registered magnitudes of 2.1 and 2.3
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 17:19
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Looks like it fractured about where I've drawn the green line.
I disagree, I think the photograph you have used/photo-shopped is at an odd angle.

To me, the vertical stabiliser has broken off at the lugs and is almost complete.
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 17:22
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Debris locations

lios727 asks about debris locations.

See my posts at:

Crash location

For an analysis of the FAB maps, including one used by the SAR teams.

-rer47
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 17:23
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From Canadian official report on SR111

"Seismographic recorders in Halifax and in Moncton, New Brunswick, recorded a seismic event at 0131:18, which coincides with the time the aircraft struck the water".
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 17:28
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Further to Mercenary Pilot re: vertical stabilizer break.

You can see the white below the bottom of the stripes in the recovered vertical stabilizer, suggesting that it's the whole thing. That photo of the stabilizer in the water was taken from an angle that changes the perspective of the stripes, I believe.
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 17:31
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AF pilots Union ALTER statement

The Air France Technical crew union ALTER is calling AF crews to refuse to fly the fleet of A330/A340 that do not have at least two modified pitot probes.
source in french: ALTER - Accueil
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