Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

Angels and Demons

Wikiposts
Search

Notices
Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

Angels and Demons

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 24th May 2009 | 02:16
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Vic Australia
Angels and Demons

Near the start of the book our hero is flying at Mach 15 at 60,000 ft, can someone please tell me what the speed over the ground would be.
kmox is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 02:33
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: Between East and West Poles.
Mach 15 is equal to.......

11121.82 miles per hour

17898.84 kilometres per hour

9664.6 knots.
Runaround Valve is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 02:43
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Vic Australia
Thanks Runaround Valve
They are an argumentative lot, possible to tell me how you calculated the answer?
kmox is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 03:14
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: Between East and West Poles.
Converter Program

I found a converter program on the internet. It is Freeware. Go to the Google website and put in Joshua F Madison Convert and you will then find and download the program. It has 17 different items, Force, Light, Mass, Speed, Power are some of what is there.
A very nifty program that I recommend you to try.
I hope that this is not advertising that upsets the Moderator. !!!
Runaround Valve is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 03:38
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Vic Australia
Your answer is very close to one already suggested, is Mach 15 at 60,000 ft a different ground speed than Mach 15 at sea level?
kmox is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 03:49
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
From: Thailand
Same Mach Number, cold air, slower G/S, warm air, faster G/S. So it follows that at sea level you will have more bangs for your bucks!
rubik101 is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 03:55
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Vic Australia
Rubik101
Question is, in ISA conditions at 60,000 ft at Mach 15 what would be your ground speed in knots ?
kmox is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 05:04
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
From: california, usa
Mach 15 is equal to.......

11121.82 miles per hour

17898.84 kilometres per hour

9664.6 knots.


What the speed over the ground would be:

9964.6 knots gs + or - the wind @60000ft
727gm is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 06:21
  #9 (permalink)  
100 Countries Visited
25 Anniversary
 
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 5,552
Likes: 25
From: ME
mach 15 at 60000 feet - Wolfram|Alpha

Gives the answer as 8614 kts

and 9990 kts at Sea Level...

Mutt
mutt is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 07:06
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
From: NZ
Formula for speed of sound is

39 x square root of temp in degrees kelvin.
Fark'n'ell is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 07:28
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
From: Petaluma
Doesn't his rate over the ground decrease as his distance from it (altitude) increases
at a given velocity?
Will Fraser is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 09:13
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,369
Likes: 3
From: UK.
My Computer Dead Reckoning MK. 4A. by The London Name Plate Mfg. Co. Ltd.
using a cor. OAT of -56.5 and M15 gives 8560kn.
First time it's been used >M1.0 - poor thing looks quite worn out.
Correcting for radial change at 60000' gives 8535kn over the ground in still air.

Anyhoo, at M15 with a DT of about 9650C, speed would be the least of his problems.
Basil is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 09:20
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
From: N.Ireland
Plus or minus the rotational speed of the earth at the given latitude.

I think a ballpark figure is required here, too many variables to supply.
Torque2 is offline  
Reply
Old 24th May 2009 | 22:29
  #14 (permalink)  
Moderator
30 Countries Visited
25 Anniversary
Veteran: Reserves
 
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
Indicated, calibrated and equivalent airspeed are irrelevant here, we can convert directly from mach number to true airspeed.

The standard formula for the speed of sound is SQRT (Gamma x R x T)

Gamma for a diatomic gas such as air pretty much is, is 1.4

R, specific (something or other) for air, is normally quoted at 287 J/kg.K [sorry, I'm doing this from memory, I can remember the values but not the full name of the constant.]

T is in this instance fairly easy, it's the air temperature. Whilst layers vary a bit with conditions, you can reasonably assume that the aircraft(!) is in the lower stratosphere, which ISA quotes as a constant temperature layer at -54deg.C - 219.15K.


So SQRT (1.4 x 287 x 219) = 297 m/s

At Mach 15 then, this gives you 297 x 15 = 4,450 m/s

To convert m/s to knots: 1 m/s = 1.94kn.

So, Mach 15 in the lower stratosphere is 8,632 knots TAS (True Air Speed).


Well into the lower statosphere, you're well above most winds, which tend to exist primarily in the troposphere, and even the jetstream which sits around the tropopause (typically 30-50,000ft) so by and large TAS = G/S.


So, M=15 @ FL600 gives you about 8,632 kn (or 9,944 mph).

G

(Currently writing a chapter of a book on high altitude aerodynamics for a European Comission study group on high altitude UAVs).


N.B. I made the mistake of buying the audiobook of Angels and Demons for a long drive. Utter and total drivel I thought - is the film any better or worse?
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.