Comp Flt Pln: APU fuel and Taxi in fuel
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huuhh your 5 cents resume my 2 , 3 and 4 cents ..no???or am i missing something?
I was actually trying to add "I quote boingboingdriver" but at the second boing the keyboard bounged me away...
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Originally Posted by bbd
But I believe we all agree that if missing 50-100kgs of fuel before takeoff ,
Originally Posted by vipero
contingency should not cover before take-off discrepancies.
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It would be interesting to see some of these people stuck in the take-off queue at JFK for 90 minutes burning up all their taxi fuel, and taxiing back for repeated refueling! I've known people use up ALL their contingency queueing up for take-off on for 22R! It is all in your ops manual. I think you will find it does not specifically state Contingency fuel is ONLY avialable for use post take-off. I think people are reading into it perhaps what they assume. Contingency is there to account for any increase in fuel useage for the flight.
If you are down 100kgs on fuel load preflight, and you can reasonably expect to burn 100 kgs less in taxi, and you annotate the fuel plan, then Abracadabra- You are legal again! It's that 'fudge' word again sticking its ugly head up!
(is this the first use of the word abracadabra in Pprune?)
If you are down 100kgs on fuel load preflight, and you can reasonably expect to burn 100 kgs less in taxi, and you annotate the fuel plan, then Abracadabra- You are legal again! It's that 'fudge' word again sticking its ugly head up!
(is this the first use of the word abracadabra in Pprune?)
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here, just to have everybody around peaceful on that:
I'm always, from this side of the barricade, a little conservative. Then I'm assuming that everything I can count during the planning phase would make life easier to everybody.
Places I know I could taxi for longer than usual 10 minutes, or where approaching procedures could take longer than published ones, would never be included in contingency fuel. At least in my calculations.
The day one of "my" flights from JFK would make an in-flight diversion because a message "insufficient fuel" would appear on the screens, I do hope that happened for a real "unforeseen circumstance".
(i) Contingency Fuel. The fuel required to compensate for unforeseen factors which could have an influence on the fuel consumption to the destination aerodrome such as deviations of an individual aeroplane from the expected fuel consumption data, deviations from forecast meteorological conditions and deviations from planned routings and/or cruising levels/altitudes.
Places I know I could taxi for longer than usual 10 minutes, or where approaching procedures could take longer than published ones, would never be included in contingency fuel. At least in my calculations.
The day one of "my" flights from JFK would make an in-flight diversion because a message "insufficient fuel" would appear on the screens, I do hope that happened for a real "unforeseen circumstance".
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The important thing is nowhere does it say 'you cannot use any Contingency Fuel before take-off'. It is the whole point of having it! Sometimes people make false assumptions which they then assume become rules, and from then on that is what applies in future.
Reality bites when you then have to sit in front of the Flight manager and go through why you had such a false assumption!
Reality bites when you then have to sit in front of the Flight manager and go through why you had such a false assumption!
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Originally Posted by vipero
I'm always, from this side of the barricade, a little conservative. Then I'm assuming that everything I can count during the planning phase would make life easier to everybody.
Places I know I could taxi for longer than usual 10 minutes, or where approaching procedures could take longer than published ones, would never be included in contingency fuel.
Places I know I could taxi for longer than usual 10 minutes, or where approaching procedures could take longer than published ones, would never be included in contingency fuel.
To give an example - you have worked out your trip fuel (out of FCO and into JFK, say) allowing for extended taxy out and extended arrival routing, thus increasing your trip fuel. You have 5% contingency also. While you are taxying out at FCO, someone has a problem and blocks the taxyway for 15 minutes, adding 15 minutes to your planned taxy time. It is quite legal under EU Ops to use some (or all) of your 5% contingency while waiting to go if you wish. If you use more than the 5% you can STILL go legally, but you will need to replan diversion fuel or change cost index or something else to arrive at JFK with sufficient.
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my
was intended to be:
I would not like that contingency, especially the whole of it, would be used before take off.
Hope that no one returned to parking just because of my previous sentence.
May I have my 5cents back, now?
contingency should not cover before take-off discrepancies.
I would not like that contingency, especially the whole of it, would be used before take off.
Hope that no one returned to parking just because of my previous sentence.
May I have my 5cents back, now?
Last edited by vipero; 29th Apr 2009 at 14:30.
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Can you leave out the money crap? And maybe you'd like to give some attention to Post 19 where you have twice made errors in one posting.
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oes anyone have extracts from EUOPS or links to this stuff rather than all this "no you cant" and "yes you can" business?!
after dispatch."
I assume you know the definition of when you have 'dispatched'?
PP
