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Hard landing

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Hard landing

Old 30th Mar 2009, 13:17
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 397
Hard landing

I've a small question about flaring technique. I fly the lear 60, got almost 900h on type and lately i'm really suffering my landings. Speed is under control but somehow my 5 last landings were hard.

So my question: when do you start with flaring? Below 50 feet?

What is the max rate of descent below 50 feet?

If you have good tips and tricks, please let me know.

dboy is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2009, 13:36
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Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Ex-pat Aussie in the UK
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I don't even flare a 737 until 20-odd feet! Tip - you can "slow things down" a bit by raising about a third of what you think you need as you pass 30 feet or so. This will slow down your rate of descent, and allow easier timing for the final round out.
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Old 30th Mar 2009, 13:38
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From a long-time Metro driver - they are difficult to land and what can often make things better is to put one wheel down before the other.
Give it a go.
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Old 30th Mar 2009, 18:02
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AEP
Age: 76
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Try this...

Hola dboy -
Used to fly LR-20/30 long ago, also 55 a few times.
I would wait for 20 feet AGL to start flare.
DO NOT CONTINUE FLARE until touchdown.
When "about to touch down" (2-3 feet AGL) relax your back pressure.
If the LR-60 has auto-spoilers, on very long runways, DISARM auto-spoilers.
Deploy spoilers manually after touchdowm. Expect some pitch-up with spoilers deploying.
Try that - and let us know...
Same technique I used (with different heights) from Lear to the 747...
Un conseil qui marche...!

Happy contrails
BelArgUSA is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2009, 18:17
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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Change the height of your seat. When you start doing hard landings at the new height then return to the old height. It works.
Generally one notch does the trick.
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Old 30th Mar 2009, 19:57
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Thx guys.

I also started to flare at 20 feet. But i guess that the hard landing was because my rate of descent was too high.

Anyway i try your tips and tricks.
dboy is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2009, 20:12
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 533
When I get into a series of hard landings...

Change epaulet sides... slide the left one on to the right shoulder and vice-versa... works a charm!!
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Old 30th Mar 2009, 20:19
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: USA
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My technique is to retard the thrust levers to idle just after the "50" foot call. I tend to apply a little back pressure at about 30 feet to slow the descent and the rest of the flare is a reaction to the resulting descent rate. A slight relaxation of the backpressure just before touchdown can soften the landing as well.

I would pay attention to where you find yourself looking during the flare. I was having landing issues and found that by making an effort to focus further down the runway, I am better able to judge height and sink rate. Also, prior to landing, consider runway width as it relates to illusions (narrower than normal makes you feel higher than you are and flare late, wider than normal makes you feel lower and flare early, etc).

Regarding BelArgUSA's suggestion of disarming the Autospoilers (if you have them), I have never noticed that their extention causes hard touchdowns.
spoilerons is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2009, 21:06
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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main dog.
now see that is my kind of answer....real experience always shows...
plain-plane is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2009, 22:10
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AEP
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Lear 60 landing

Hola spoilerons -
Do not know about the LR-60 - The closest (however different) was the 55.
In many planes, 727ADV, old DC8, 747 Classic, autospoilers OFF is our trick.
Maybe works with the LR-60 as well, I told our friend dboy to try that.
Might work, might not - Trial and error...
Brgds -

Happy contrails

PS -
Thinking about it I remember the pronounced "autoflare" resulting w/ thrust going to idle.
Because the engnes are located high. Very little elevator "flare" back pressure required.

Last edited by BelArgUSA; 30th Mar 2009 at 22:20. Reason: PS addition
BelArgUSA is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2009, 01:45
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 398
There are only three things you needs to know about performing a perfect landing every single time.

Unfortunately, Nobody knows what they are.
Bally Heck is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2009, 05:10
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Netherlands
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I am not going to throw all kinds of numbers at you, BUT be sure to shift the point of your visual focus:
For the approach, you focus on the aim point, your intended touchdown point on the runway. Of course, you will also often check your instruments inside.
For the flare you need to look far down the runway, so that your peripheral vision can see the rising of the ground, that is the best indication for proper execution of the flare. Shift that visual focus point as you cross the runway threshold, so, approximately at 50 feet (for small aircraft perhaps a little later or lower). Once you have shifted your visual focus point, do not anymore look inside to your instruments. The continuity of the perception of the ground movement is what you need for proper execution of the flare.
During the flare, adjust pitch and power as appropriate for your aircraft type to achieve almost level flight as the main wheels touch the ground.
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Old 31st Mar 2009, 08:11
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: France
Posts: 610
Hard Landing

Emit and Dboy:

For what it is worth, my suggestion is not to focus on a "point". As I approached a "flare" I used to shift my focus on an continual basis out from the nose, down to about halfway along the runway and back towards the nose. I found it helped and my landings, there were no complaints.

Hope this helps.

Tmbstory is offline  

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