NDB approach aid monitoring

[Tmbstory]

Morse Code

In days gone by we had to learn morse code and pass at a standard of 10 WPM. Most of us learnt by a 78 RPM record from Nancy Bird Walton and then the official DCA test.

A good hard exam which equipped us well to decipher the dots and dashes.

Now it is no longer required, in my opinon, a pity.

Tmb

[Old Smokey]

You're lucky that you did not have to learn to transmit it as well Tmbstory. Now I'm showing my age

Regards,

--- .-.. -.. ... -- --- -.- . -.--

[BOAC]

Isn't it procedure

- of course, but you have to overcome the growing tendency to 'assume' that the wonder machine will do it all for you and NOTICE it is not dipslayed correctly in the first place! Mind you, having been taken through the localiser a couple of times 'cos twitface has not bothered to I/D the ILS and thus not noticed he is still in 'AUTO'.....................

[Denti]

Ah yes, "assuming" is something that can bite you very hard in unpleasant places.

[411A]

Mind you, having been taken through the localiser a couple of times 'cos twitface has not bothered to I/D the ILS and thus not noticed he is still in 'AUTO'.....................

It gets worse, at times.
Occasionally, twitface will dial in the parallel runway ILS frequency, whilst still in AUTO, and not bother to even try to ID...had a young guy try this while under annual line check.
The check Captain just about had a fit, read him the riot act, then sent him back to the 737 (from the tri-motor) for more 'seasoning', and docked him a months pay in the process.

[hawker750]

411a
Those were the days ey? Couldn't do it now, it would be against his civil rights to not allowed him to be incompetent

[Big Pistons Forever]

Loose Rivets wrote

"Used to disable the ILS and see if they could pull something out of the bag. Mostly okay till 15 years ago, now I'm not so sure that young chaps can improvise all that well. they're just a bright, but fearful of not following SOPs, so don't act instinctively"

Personaly I don't expect the guys I fly with to "pull something out of the bag".
I think the accident record has many examples of crashes caused by pilots "acting instinctively" in abnormal situations instead of moving the aircraft to a safe place/configuration and then methodically managing the problem.

In 25 years of flying I have only had the ILS fail once. I immediately commenced a missed approach and after making sure that the failure was not a symptom of a bigger electrical/avionics issue, asked for and then rebriefed for the LOC approach.

[stue]

As interesting as this is hearing how it once was done, and I’m not being sarcastic, it genuinely is interesting to know how it was done in times before I was even born! But this thing about not identing the App aid, be it an ILS, VOR or NDB isn’t just a twitface F/O issue. Iv flown with many Captains who don’t ident the app aid because its “in the box” or “the line is there, we are flying it in LNAV, why would you ask such a stupid question?” That’s what I get told when I question it anyway.

Sorry, slight thread drift I know………

[DC-ATE]

stue -

You just keep on questioning the Captain.....IF.....you think something is wrong. A good Captain will not take offense. I always told any new crew member (I had a three-man crew) to ask, question ANYTHING they wanted.

[c100driver]

The point is moot anyway with the speed at which the NDB is being removed from service. Almost 50% of the NDB that were operational in 2000 in New Zealand are now withdrawn, with another 4 to be decomissioned this year.

The only time I have to fly an NDB approach in the last 10 years that I can remember has been to tick a box for the regulator in a simulator.

In a PBN world its time is over!

[Loose rivets]

Personaly I don't expect the guys I fly with to "pull something out of the bag".
I think the accident record has many examples of crashes caused by pilots "acting instinctively" in abnormal situations instead of .

Well, maybe...but when you said: "moving the aircraft to a safe place/configuration and then methodically managing the problem" would be a good example of an instinctive deployment of resources and skills. What I fear is a mind-set that needs to resort to a rule book in moments of crisis.


To keep on thread, and also combine two arguments into one comment, let's give an example.

The point is moot anyway with the speed at which the NDB is being removed from service.

It'll be a while before they are just a memory, but I know what you mean. That trusty old beacon - like a fire in a clifftop Trinity House iron basket - has served us well for...strewth! more than half a century.

Taking off with an aircraft laden to the gunwales with fuel, passengers and every last bit of freight that the bean-counters can thrust upon us, is fairly straightforward - until we're flying on one engine, or perhaps, covered in ice. On board are the same passengers that expect us to pull 'something out of the bag' if something goes wrong. With hills either side, I would personally like to have a breadcrumb trail of beacons to guide me until I make safe altitude, now that the GPS track-log has become nothing more than a wish-list. That would be a good example of the use of small local beacons. After all, they're cheap, and in the absence of T-storms, pretty reliable. I don't think we should be in a rush to wave them goodbye.

Where I do see frightening departures from logical recovery from emergencies, is when a head, or even heads, go down into the office to instruct a piece of electronics to do the job the crew should 'instinctively' be able to do. At the end of the day, it all comes back to Davis' strongly worded pleas in his later edition of Handling the Big Jets. Also, I earned my living from electronics for years and have a love of modern systems, but it's when the basic flying is submerged in rules, that I get motivated to protest these points.

[Tmbstory]

Lucky

Old Smokey:

I certainly was lucky not to have been required to transmit morse, a credit to you, when I think back I still recall -.-. -.-- (CY). Was that a sign off that was used in those days.

Regards

Tmb

[BelArgUSA]

Tit tit taah...

Morse code...
xxx
Well yes, as a teenager, I had to learn it to get my "ham" radio licence.
Obviously no longer required today for aviation licences.
However, would urge pilots to learn to decode 3 or 4 letter identification.
No "speed" required... just to be able to identify.
xxx
Pilots learn so many "worthless" things... such as -
Who cares you know that LV is Argentina registry, and memorize 50 others.
And know 200 airport 3 letter/4 letter codes. I only knew a handful.
Morse code is not worthless.
xxx

Happy contrails

[Capt Pit Bull]

Your mistake as PF might be "set 113.1" and... the proper frequency might be 111.3.
A notorious "killer" in everyday operations and a bust... for a check flight.

No top of that, even if you've set it correctly doesn't mean its tuned. I've had a control head go 'do lally' on me and indicate the newly selected ILS freq whilst remaining tuned to the previous VOR freq. IIRC the efis was hapily announcing it was in ILS mode and the glide had tuned correctly and was indicating but it is a few years back now, so I might be wrong.

Could have been interesting for those that don't check their idents as the VOR was mile or so off the centreline.

pb