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'Toxic' cabin air found in new plane study - Telegraph

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'Toxic' cabin air found in new plane study - Telegraph

Old 14th Nov 2010, 21:48
  #121 (permalink)  
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PhD Thesis - Contaminated cabin air.

At last, a thesis on contaminated cabin air.

The phoenix girl - Learmount

Congratulations - Dr Michaelis.

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Old 27th Mar 2011, 21:14
  #122 (permalink)  
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Sunday Express, 27 March 2011

Shocking Toll of Poisoned Air Crew
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Old 28th Mar 2011, 03:05
  #123 (permalink)  
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Aerotoxic Syndrome, though being talked about in commercial aviation sector, is not even a recognised illness or entity as far as medical sciences is concerned. But for the isolated efforts by few individuals, unions and even regulators like CAA and CASA, this may remain a unknown malady, with physicians the world over treating the symptoms of the affected individuals as anything other than aerotoxic syndrome!
Kudos to the German unions for being forthright in this matter.
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Old 28th Mar 2011, 22:06
  #124 (permalink)  
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Yes indeed - the German unions are quoted in this article from Der Spiegel magazine. Their media has been giving this issue a lot of attention over the past couple of years.

Der Spiegel: Gestank alter Socken (German)

Der Spiegel: Stench of old socks (English translation)
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Old 30th Mar 2011, 20:14
  #125 (permalink)  
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Cranfield University report

The long overdue Cranfield University report is meant to be published in the late spring of 2011 (originally 2010) to provide the 'urgent' answer of 'which substances are in the fumes' asked by the House of Lords in 2007.

Any bets that it will be published over Easter / Royal wedding on 29th April 2011 - a good time to dump bad news?

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Old 3rd Apr 2011, 12:02
  #126 (permalink)  
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I predict no scientifically significant causal link will be found.

This is just like global warming, a scientific con.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 12:32
  #127 (permalink)  
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Shell Mismanagement

SM, if you beleive that, you are stupid; more likely you're part of the spin machine. If it looks like a duck................
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 12:56
  #128 (permalink)  
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Shell Mongrel

Now I wonder where his interest's lie regarding global warming and toxic by-products of oil. Arrogant
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 13:26
  #129 (permalink)  
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I'm sorry, but this is a matter of science.

Clearly there are some who would stoke a compensation culture in the hope of big payouts.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 13:36
  #130 (permalink)  
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Shell Management

Your're playing with matches again in a tinder box of believers.

You could probably have some valid points. My summary of this is that engineers can not fix what they can't measure and that when all is said and done more will be said then done.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 14:09
  #131 (permalink)  
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If it can't be measured the chances are rather in favour of it not being there.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 17:13
  #132 (permalink)  
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Cuban9 needs to open his eyes to the reality OIL is running out and the world is running around trying to figure out what to do when the black gold runs out.

Back on topic...

Is it more of a case of won't look rather can can't look, or did look but didn't find? If you don't look you can't see anything...

Why is it all these samples must be taken secretly? If there is nothing to hide, there is nothing to fear, right?

ECAM Actions.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 21:14
  #133 (permalink)  
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Shell, It took time to agree that farmers were being killed by organophosphates in sheep dip, and eventually that was banned. I was a sceptic until I lost my kidneys three years ago after 17 years on the 146 due to my immune system running wild almost certainly the same problem as sheep dip.
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Old 10th Apr 2011, 16:37
  #134 (permalink)  
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Bade Smell in the Aviation Industry.

After 9 years on the Bae146, I await with some trepidation the medical effects of operating this quirky aircraft.

Working for an airline which was one of the first to use the type, it was a common pracice to start the APU some time before boarding so that when the packs were initiated we could observe the arrival in the aft cabin of a cloud of blue smoke which gradually dispersed.

Pax then boarded into a supposedly "clean" cabin, though one can only guess at the dosage rate to the unfortunate cabin crew performing their normal preflight checks. The issue was frequently highlighted as a defect in the tech log with the standard Not Fixed annotation by the engineers.

In the subsequent descents (APU NOT operating), the waft of sweaty socks occurred at around 8,000ft aircraft altitude as reliably as an auto altitude callout. The same "rectification" writeup would be observed.

Try getting hold of a copy of "Toxic Airlines" by Tristan Lorraine if you want a cracking good yarn with a suitable ending for more info on the topic. The book gives a very good explanation as to why we, as actual and potential vicims of this mass poisoning, are being kept in the dark, along with the mushrooms!

I shall now reflect on why I use this posting name..............
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Old 10th Apr 2011, 17:09
  #135 (permalink)  
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The trouble with all of this is the difficulty of collecting good evidence that will stand up in a court of law.

For example, if I were to be called as a witness, I would have to admit that I flew the Bae146 for nearly 20 years and retired at the age of 65. I am now 70and I am still (thank goodness) enjoying robust health.

As I have said on past threads on this subject, I have met a couple of people who have undoubtedly developed health problems and I sympathise fully with their problems but I think this is going to be a very difficult one to nail down.

The fact of the matter is that there were thousands and thousands of farmers involved in dipping sheep but not so many flying "smelly" aeroplanes.
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Old 10th Apr 2011, 19:42
  #136 (permalink)  
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Cause and effect


Doubtless you are aware of the visible oil fumes that many 146 pilots repeatedly breathed and know CAUSED their ill serious health - the EFFECT?

We also know that it only affects about 30% of people seriously. This is known science.

I met a top lawyer (who also happens to contest the cause and effect of breathing toxic oil fumes) recently at my house and within minutes he was in tears and had serious respiratory problems. He went to bed very early - by the morning he was in even worse shape and considered going to A&E. He was the only one affected.

The CAUSE? - I have 3 cats and he was allergic to them.

So, whilst I am delighted that you personally have not been affected (yet), could you please understand that everybody has different genes, has had different exposures and experiences different EFFECTS depending on the CAUSE.


Here is a paper from UCL (University College London) which reports that in 2004 OVER 196,000 UK Passengers a year could be presenting their symptoms of acute toxicity to their GP's - who incredibly, are STILL not told that OP's are in the engine oil that their patients regularly breathe. Page 523.

How many aircrew? Do you really think anybody actually cares?

Whatever i$ it about thi$ $ubject, which make$ a $imple cau$al link - $o di££icult?

It would be great if everybody was like you JW411 - but sadly many of my good mates are dying prematurely now and many of us know - exactly why.

Just out of interest - are you allergic to anything? Do you recognise allergies?

Why & how could this be......all made up?

Anybody (especially BALPA members - as we are not allowed to advertise in The Log) wanting to know more should visit: Aerotoxic Association - Support for sufferers of Aerotoxic Syndrome

Rant over, apologies...

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Old 12th Apr 2011, 17:47
  #137 (permalink)  
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Dream Buster - thanks for showing (with your cat story) that there are plenty of ways for humans to have adverse reactions to perfectly innocent environmental stimuli and that an over-hyped oil based cause-celeb need no be the X-file conspiracy source.
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Old 12th Apr 2011, 21:06
  #138 (permalink)  
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"an over-hyped oil based cause-celeb".........................
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Old 13th Apr 2011, 09:31
  #139 (permalink)  
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I suspect that individual/obvious fume events might not be to blame. It's well known that regular low levels of exposure to various chemicals can sensitize people so that the reaction they experience gets worse and worse even though exposure levels remain the same. They can also start to react to other similar substances at levels that don't provoke a reaction at all in unsensitized people.

I managed to accidentally sensitize myself to super glue but fortunately it's easy to avoid. Took awhile to work it out but I used it a lot to build a model planes and spotted a pattern. I'd get mild flu like symptoms a day after use. I didn't get that reaction when I was younger or when using other adhesives.

Dictionary - Definition of sensitization

Chemical sensitization: Evidence suggests that some people may develop health problems characterized by effects such as dizziness, eye and throat irritation, chest tightness, and nasal congestion that appear whenever they are exposed to certain chemicals. People may react to even trace amounts of chemicals to which they have become "sensitized."
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Old 14th Apr 2011, 04:58
  #140 (permalink)  
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l believe that Bae Systems paid, under it`s previous name, an undisclosed sum to avoid future litigation.

l do have some history, and will dig it out.

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