Explain these 747 condensation patterns?
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What the photographer is saying now on the link.
Posted by gerard isaacson on January 31, 2009
To help shed light on this picture, a storm had just cleared the area, I shot this around the same time USAirways #1549 dropped into the Hudson. This 747 cleared the view of the sky in my back yard like the space schuttle. The halo appeared once very faintly which drew my attention, so I raised the camera in case I saw it again, the first halo last like 1/2 a second, then I started to see it again so I depressed the shutter once...just one shot...that's what I got...the halo or shockwave moved with the plane...it did not pass through a vortex donut so to speak...it was 11 degrees on the ground so I think possibly this is light playing off a layer of ice crystals where the air is compressing by the bow wave. I've just never seen this before. I wonder if the crew were able to see it?..
High magnification would lead me to believe it's photoshopped as you can see where the pen to draw the "Condensation" has stopped and started, for one thing. Other anomalies can be noted as well, lack of symmetry and continuity. Edited to add: Bollox to veracity, it just ain't how the Prandtl–Glauert singularity works (which is what the photographer is trying to say is going on).
Posted by gerard isaacson on January 31, 2009
To help shed light on this picture, a storm had just cleared the area, I shot this around the same time USAirways #1549 dropped into the Hudson. This 747 cleared the view of the sky in my back yard like the space schuttle. The halo appeared once very faintly which drew my attention, so I raised the camera in case I saw it again, the first halo last like 1/2 a second, then I started to see it again so I depressed the shutter once...just one shot...that's what I got...the halo or shockwave moved with the plane...it did not pass through a vortex donut so to speak...it was 11 degrees on the ground so I think possibly this is light playing off a layer of ice crystals where the air is compressing by the bow wave. I've just never seen this before. I wonder if the crew were able to see it?..
High magnification would lead me to believe it's photoshopped as you can see where the pen to draw the "Condensation" has stopped and started, for one thing. Other anomalies can be noted as well, lack of symmetry and continuity. Edited to add: Bollox to veracity, it just ain't how the Prandtl–Glauert singularity works (which is what the photographer is trying to say is going on).
Last edited by Brian Abraham; 1st Feb 2009 at 20:46.
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Guys comeon, have a little respect for the photographer - Trust me, if it was a fake that photographer would be banned by now - The screeners at JetPhotos are very experienced and if it was a fake the photographer would have been banned immediately - Nobody seems to know what the effect is, which is fair enough but theres no need for saying it's a fake. What makes it even worse is someone has posted a comment on the shot, and it sounds like it's from here.
I'd be interested to see this if you still don't mind having a crack at it?
Posted by Mmmmmmm on February 1, 2009
Photoshopped, and not very well done at that. Professional airline pilots on another site are having a bit of a giggle. Sorry gerard.
Photoshopped, and not very well done at that. Professional airline pilots on another site are having a bit of a giggle. Sorry gerard.
With 30 years imaging experience and a lifelong interest in aviation, in my estimation that pic is the result of some pretty bad photoshopping. Given five minutes tomorrow I could probably replicate the effects in that pic rather easily.
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With 30 years imaging experience and a lifelong interest in aviation, in my estimation that pic is the result of some pretty bad photoshopping.
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Fake or not, those contrails are nothing to do with the aeroplane. Period. People do this sort of thing for notoriety- like the 747 apparently climbing vertically from nose-on out of LAX.
People are mugs if they think they can come to a prof flyers forum and fool people with this nonsense. I have never seen condensation patterns around a jet like that. The condensation that day is non existent. It's fake, or a snap at an instant when those trails were at altitude....in which case the photographer is being disingenuous.
People are mugs if they think they can come to a prof flyers forum and fool people with this nonsense. I have never seen condensation patterns around a jet like that. The condensation that day is non existent. It's fake, or a snap at an instant when those trails were at altitude....in which case the photographer is being disingenuous.
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Forget.
That 'blank canvas' is a copyright image and really I shouldn't be tampering with it at all, but I hope the author won't mind me adjusting just a little selection of it.
Could be better if I spent more time on it. Or if I was doing it for money.
That 'blank canvas' is a copyright image and really I shouldn't be tampering with it at all, but I hope the author won't mind me adjusting just a little selection of it.
Could be better if I spent more time on it. Or if I was doing it for money.
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Nice effort Coffin Dodger - I still think the other is real and looks more realistic but that's just my opinion. If you look through his shots I think it's obvious he doesn't need to cheat to gain views.
That's fair enough Rainboe - As for the 747-400, I didn't see the picture but if there was noting in the backround then it's fairly simple to do. Even somebody with no Photoshop experience or editing experience could do that. Needless to say, it didn't stop these Malaysian pilots giving it ago...
Photos: Boeing 747-4H6 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Fake or not, those contrails are nothing to do with the aeroplane. Period. People do this sort of thing for notoriety- like the 747 apparently climbing vertically from nose-on out of LAX.
Photos: Boeing 747-4H6 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
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I probably tend to agree now. Confess to having partaken of several glasses of a rather pleasant Pinot Noir when I wrote my initial post. Naughty but nice.
Later analysis of the pic does lead me to conclude that yes those contrails in the original pic could well be real. In the line of sight but well behind and away from the aircraft.
Hey at least I rose to forget's challenge though.
And now, not being an aviation professional I think I'll go back to lurking.
Later analysis of the pic does lead me to conclude that yes those contrails in the original pic could well be real. In the line of sight but well behind and away from the aircraft.
Hey at least I rose to forget's challenge though.
And now, not being an aviation professional I think I'll go back to lurking.
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but theres no need for saying it's a fake.
"The halo appeared once very faintly which drew my attention, so I raised the camera in case I saw it again, the first halo last like 1/2 a second, then I started to see it again so I depressed the shutter once...just one shot...that's what I got...the halo or shockwave moved with the plane...it did not pass through a vortex donut so to speak...it was 11 degrees on the ground so I think possibly this is light playing off a layer of ice crystals where the air is compressing by the bow wave"
His statement makes it very plain that there was no upper level cloud or a contrail put down by another aircraft, and the halo moved with the aircraft.
Coffin Dodger, your reproduction would be more believable (though its still obviously fake) than the original if you were attempting to bluff the uneducated. The original is so fake its unbelievable that anyone with a modicum of aeronautical knowledge could be sucked in.
like the 747 apparently climbing vertically from nose-on out of LAX
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That's the fellah. I recall the frustration of trying to tell people it wasn't really a vertical climb and it had been 'manipulated'.
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Here's your photo Rainboe. Actually it hasn't been "manipulated" and if you look at the runway signs you begin to get some sense of perspective (angle of climb). The foreshortening effect of the telephoto lens adds to the drama.
looks like a cirrus cloud taken at a strange perspective---if it were aerobatics, that's like a 10G loop
if it were real the wing would be flapping like a seagull
if it were real the wing would be flapping like a seagull
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Trans-crop circles, or no?
Just my geeky perspective, but let us look at what seem to be the facts:
1) These patterns APPEAR to have color, which implies something optical. The Prandtl-Glauert Singularity just produces vapor. Such vapor sometimes does produce color, but also tends to appear in a conical shape. Prandtl also predicts a radius much, much smaller than what we see in the photo.
2) P-G concerns the separation and re-attachment of airflow at high Reynolds numbers (which need not be transonic), but the patterns we're seeing do not seem to result from detached flow, especially when you consider the asymmetrical ring around the nose. In addition to the evident color, please also note that this ring around the nose seems to be almost actually TWO rings. The second one, sharper and less cloudy, looks like it is just forming/becoming visible.
3) Just assuming for argument's sake that there is some kind of P-G effect, what about the shapes we're seeing behind the left wing and ahead of the right-wing pods? Seems like a totally different kind of effect, and not at all related to the classic "N" shape shockwave that is predicted and well-observed. Also, we know that transonic waves will creep up from behind the trailing edge, but this airplane is flying much too slowly for that. At approximately 5,000 feet, this airplane is doing probably 0.2 Mach. We sometimes see condensation developing below and behind extended flaps at such speeds, but this aircraft is clean and we know that it was a cold day (-11C), so ice crystal formation (sublimation) is more likely than condensation.
4) We should also consider what is NOT. Maybe the aircraft in the photo is nowhere near the actual phenomena. Looking at it, the Boeing appears to be above the bow shape, yet far below the trailing edge shape. The pod shapes seem to vague to judge, but all three shapes seem to have a similar intensity and coloration.5) Also missing are the wingtip vortices often visible in high-humidity conditions. If we were dealing with a P-G effect, then we would expect to see tight vortices coming off the wingtips.
6) Related to 4, maybe it is flying THROUGH some kind of ring-shaped vortex created by a factory or a local explosion of some kind (these are well-documented), but the photographer claims to have seen the phenomenon actually repeat itself, which is why he said he raised his camera in the first place. If the effect repeated itself, the aircraft was not flying through an existing vortex. UNLESS it, by some massive coincidence, managed to re-enter or remain in wake turbulence from a preceeding aircraft. Could be, and I've seen it happen.7) The bow shape resembles a parhelic circle. These usually form at a 22 degree angle between the observer and the object, which is plausible here, but how to explain the non-circular shapes ahead of the right wing and behind the left one? Again, potentially two different effects.
Just a little comida for thought,
m.
1) These patterns APPEAR to have color, which implies something optical. The Prandtl-Glauert Singularity just produces vapor. Such vapor sometimes does produce color, but also tends to appear in a conical shape. Prandtl also predicts a radius much, much smaller than what we see in the photo.
2) P-G concerns the separation and re-attachment of airflow at high Reynolds numbers (which need not be transonic), but the patterns we're seeing do not seem to result from detached flow, especially when you consider the asymmetrical ring around the nose. In addition to the evident color, please also note that this ring around the nose seems to be almost actually TWO rings. The second one, sharper and less cloudy, looks like it is just forming/becoming visible.
3) Just assuming for argument's sake that there is some kind of P-G effect, what about the shapes we're seeing behind the left wing and ahead of the right-wing pods? Seems like a totally different kind of effect, and not at all related to the classic "N" shape shockwave that is predicted and well-observed. Also, we know that transonic waves will creep up from behind the trailing edge, but this airplane is flying much too slowly for that. At approximately 5,000 feet, this airplane is doing probably 0.2 Mach. We sometimes see condensation developing below and behind extended flaps at such speeds, but this aircraft is clean and we know that it was a cold day (-11C), so ice crystal formation (sublimation) is more likely than condensation.
4) We should also consider what is NOT. Maybe the aircraft in the photo is nowhere near the actual phenomena. Looking at it, the Boeing appears to be above the bow shape, yet far below the trailing edge shape. The pod shapes seem to vague to judge, but all three shapes seem to have a similar intensity and coloration.
6) Related to 4, maybe it is flying THROUGH some kind of ring-shaped vortex created by a factory or a local explosion of some kind (these are well-documented), but the photographer claims to have seen the phenomenon actually repeat itself, which is why he said he raised his camera in the first place. If the effect repeated itself, the aircraft was not flying through an existing vortex. UNLESS it, by some massive coincidence, managed to re-enter or remain in wake turbulence from a preceeding aircraft. Could be, and I've seen it happen.
Just a little comida for thought,
m.
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Looks believable to me except that the photographer says that he forgot to switch to "raw" on his camera. That is quite convenient statement because raw data from the camera can't be tampered with. Jpeg can be tampered with and have every EXIF info edited.
My 2 cents.
My 2 cents.
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Strange 747 Trails in photo, Kalitta
Hi, I just stumbled upon an argument of sorts over an image I photographed back in 2009 of a Kalitta 747 with strange compression rings around the airframe. Many had theories, some accused me of photo shop work just to get noticed. If any of you are interested in this photo I would be delighted to enlighten you about it. It is unique, no doubt. And it was purely, 110% undoctered...g
