Lufthansa pilots way of speaking on the radio

[bla bla]

Can some one please tell me why Lufthansa pilots allways state there callsign BEFORE they answer ATC question, sounds stupied, and seems to me that it increases the chance of getting the readback wrong?
For example: Lufthansa 1432 squak 1342 "lufthansa 1432 squak 1342"
once established contact why not do as everybody else??
IT IRRITATES ME
Sorry... had to get that out of my system

Merry X mas to everybody

[PicMas]

you and me both...

And while we are at it, they also sound like a soundclip from " 'allo 'allo"

"Leezen kahrfoolee, I shall say theeeees onlee oance"

[CirrusF]

It is because in German you always at the end of the sentence the verb put. So it is ganz schwierig wie uns zu antworten.

[roljoe]

I don't really see any concern here...

Lufthansa crews have a verry good radio proc's..even if the callsign is placed ahead...

The majority of other crews should have the same discipline..in this matter...

I'm not german, neither Lufthansa crew member..but each time I have a LH crew on the same frequency...everything's clear....

Furthermore...in my opinion there is much more interesting stuff to be discuted here..

anyway merry Xmas to all

[DBate]

It is standard operating procedure at Lufthansa to do the readback starting with the callsign. The reason ist the following:

It gives the PF time to set the new HDG/Alt. etc. in the FCU, and then the PNF does the readback directly from the FMA (and by that checks the new setting on the FMA), thus making sure that the PF indeed made the correct settings. It is therefore another way to check the correct entry/setting of the clearance.

By the way, the search funtion is your friend as this subject has been discussed several times already on pprune, e.g.

here

Merry XMas,
DBate

[18-Wheeler]

It's the way we used to do it in Australia, and it makes far more sense to me. It got changed because QF wanted it changed to be the same as most of the rest of the world.

[cancel_mayday]

Callsign first - is exactly to our RTF Rules.

[RWL-Trainee]

We also try to teach this SOP to our new pilots in our Airline! (Partner of LH in Germany)...

[Death Pencil]

I take it this isn't laid out in Jepps (?) in Germany?

At least in Australia it is...(ATC AU-912) and not left to a company's SOPs.

[Rainboe]

bla bla- it's actually the right way to do it! It's the way I was taught long ago! It's also the way I have gotten out of the habit of using. But what does grate is the wrong use of there, their and they're. But if English is not your first language, you are totally forgiven! Enough pig ignorant English people who I paid to attend school for 12 years or so still don't know the difference!

[hetfield]

So, mods please close this thread now.

Thx and

MERRY X-MAS

[fireflybob]

Sorry to disappoint you but CAP 413 (UK Radiotelephony Manual) has countless examples of the readback terminating with the a/c callsign!

CAP 413

[hetfield]

Oh, than all others must be wrong.....

[A Very Civil Pilot]

In UK airspace....yes!

[roljoe]

So now...considering the huge development of this really important subject...what's next..

[xxgunnerxx]

I don't think this is exclusive only to Lufthansa pilots, Aeroflot pilots do it as well except they also repeat the callsign at the end of the transmission in addition to the beginning.

[pilotmike]

But what does grate is.... pig ignorant English people who I paid to attend school for 12 years...

It would appear that not only your money was wasted. How we love own goals such as this!

[Min Stack]

Can some one please tell me why Lufthansa pilots allways state there callsign BEFORE they answer ATC question, sounds stupied, and seems to me that it increases the chance of getting the readback wrong?
For example: Lufthansa 1432 squak 1342 "lufthansa 1432 squak 1342"
once established contact why not do as everybody else??
IT IRRITATES ME

Doesn't irritate me one jot. As a controller, I find Lufthansa pilots' RT excellent. When I transmit, what I'm looking for is a quick reply, especially when busy. Best crews for quick replies are most European, Middle Eastern and Asian airlines that I come in contact with. Worst ones are most USA airlines - some examples I regularly come across:

1. Long delay before getting any response (if at all)
2. Was that for us?
3. Were you calling XXX123?
4. Who was that for?
5. XXX123 replies instead of XXX345
6. Non-standard 'clever' RT. Recently told XXX123 to "descend when ready to FL200". XXX123 replied "Roger, PD to 200" It took me a while to work that one out - "Pilot's discretion to FL200" (I think)

Why the delay and ambiguity?? Can only guess that it's crews using handmikes instead of headsets - even in areas of poor RT coverage. Why do some crews reply almost instantaneously and others don't? Fumbling for a handmike, cockpit noise drowning out speaker in the cockpit ceiling? Nothing worse than having to transmit twice or more when working a busy sector.

[airman13]

I cannot see what's wrong...?!, I am nor german neither lufthansa crew, but usually I put my call sign before the message, and I am a holder of level 5.....and ......I wish you a merry christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gargleblaster]

I know that I'll be flamed for this, but I'm a bit amazed at this discussion.

I have read the original thread: http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/238...readbacks.html

The worst air-disaster ever (Tenerife) was due to poor R/T. The ICAO docs aren't available online ? Every country seems to have different standards ?

It seems to me that company procedures are accepted to override international regulations, at least according to what I've been tought.

I hold a humble JAR PPL, but I am examined and certified to fly VFR in any JAR country, and communicate accordingly.

What you're describing here would have made me fail my RT exams.

Readback of instructions (squawk codes count as instructions) are always to be terminated with the AC callsign. End of story for me, unless I've been tought wrongly. Please correct me if I'm wrong !