Minimum Takeoff Weight?
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Minimum Takeoff Weight?
Morning guys,
had a discussion with a friend just right now about some weight limitations of an Airbus and a Boeing.
Does anyone of you know, if a Boeing has an Minimum takeoff weight? If yes, is that not similar to the DOW?
had a discussion with a friend just right now about some weight limitations of an Airbus and a Boeing.
Does anyone of you know, if a Boeing has an Minimum takeoff weight? If yes, is that not similar to the DOW?
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Minimum weight for take-off
The only minimum weight would be aircraft empty weight, plus minimum crew weight, plus minimum fuel for anticipated flight. There is no "Minimum Weight for Take-off" limit of which I am aware. I think your friend is "having a lend of you".
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On the 777 2 section Perf Dispatch there is a table with minimum weights (alt vs temp). Note that the FMS will not issue Vspeeds at these weights. About 50klbs from DOW.
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Certain certification cases require consideration of a minimum flight weight (VMC is one). Depending on how the OEM does it, they may use a minimum flight weight for these purposes which is so low as to be no practical limit on the aircraft; however, this will impose some penalty on normal operations in certain cases, as the weight used may be unrealistically low. There may be cases where the weight assumed is actually greater than, say, the weight which an aircraft with no interior completion and minimum fuel.crew could be at. In that case one would have to arrange the loading and planning to respect the minimum flight weight. However, this would be a landing consideration, and the takeoff would be derived from that, not a direct l;imitation.
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There is no "Minimum Weight for Take-off" limit of which I am aware.
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Try MIN Zero Fuel Weight! And the reason for such a defined limitation ......so the graphs don't have to extend down to zero.
Houba - pray what on earth are you talking about now? I presume that you are making an obscure reference to how Vmcg may be a limiting factor. As V1 should not be less than Vmcg, this is not relevant to the question being asked.
Houba - pray what on earth are you talking about now? I presume that you are making an obscure reference to how Vmcg may be a limiting factor. As V1 should not be less than Vmcg, this is not relevant to the question being asked.
Last edited by fullyspooled; 10th Sep 2008 at 21:00.
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For the Bus
A318/319/320/321 - FCOM 3.01.28 pag. 2 - on top
MINIMUM FUEL QUANTITY FOR TAKE OFF : 1500 kg (3307 lb)
A330 - FCOM 3.01.28 pag. 1 - bottom
MINIMUM FUEL QUANTITY FOR TAKE OFF : 5200 kg (11460 lb)
According those minimum requirements the minimum weight would be aircraft empty weight, plus minimum crew weight, plus the above figure.
MINIMUM FUEL QUANTITY FOR TAKE OFF : 1500 kg (3307 lb)
A330 - FCOM 3.01.28 pag. 1 - bottom
MINIMUM FUEL QUANTITY FOR TAKE OFF : 5200 kg (11460 lb)
According those minimum requirements the minimum weight would be aircraft empty weight, plus minimum crew weight, plus the above figure.
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Confusing multiple issues here ..
The question relates to certification as it is referring to limitations ... MFS has the usual story in his post .. which is not surprising considering that he is a certification man. If there is a declared minimum TOW limitation it ought to be in the limitations section but will certainly be explicit in the CG envelope as shown, typically, by a line across the bottom of the envelope at the relevant weight.
In general, pilots would not have any particular knowledge of this sort of limitation as, in the great majority of cases, it is irrelevant to routine operations.
For a practical consideration, the lightest TOW for a given aircraft will be for a stripped configuration, nil payload, min fuel and crew ... but this is not a limitation .. only a consequence of the configuration.
The question relates to certification as it is referring to limitations ... MFS has the usual story in his post .. which is not surprising considering that he is a certification man. If there is a declared minimum TOW limitation it ought to be in the limitations section but will certainly be explicit in the CG envelope as shown, typically, by a line across the bottom of the envelope at the relevant weight.
In general, pilots would not have any particular knowledge of this sort of limitation as, in the great majority of cases, it is irrelevant to routine operations.
For a practical consideration, the lightest TOW for a given aircraft will be for a stripped configuration, nil payload, min fuel and crew ... but this is not a limitation .. only a consequence of the configuration.
The B767-300 I fly has a MIW (minimum in-flight weight) of 81,195 kgs in the limitations section of the ops manual. It doesn't say why though, it would be pretty much an empty aeroplane plus minimum fuel, if any.
I flew B707s years ago and there was also a stated minimum in-flight flaps up weight in the ops manual.
Regards,
BH.
I flew B707s years ago and there was also a stated minimum in-flight flaps up weight in the ops manual.
Regards,
BH.
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I flew B707s years ago and there was also a stated minimum in-flight flaps up weight in the ops manual.
The B707 had a minimum in flight (departure) weight due to the possibility of fuel tank outlet un-porting, during rotation.
Minimum fuel for dispatch...40,000 pounds.
Bangladesh Bimin found out the hard way about this during a takeoff ex- Paya Lebar in the late seventies, just after rotation with minimal fuel in tanks (destination KUL)...three of four engines flamed out, and they ended up in the grass, just off the side of the runway.
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I believe some aircraft do have minimum weights, and it could have to do with structural limitations. My guess would be a weight too light could incur structural issues when dealing with increased loading. For example a weight too light could expose the aircraft to excessive loading prior to a stall say inadvertently entering an area of severe or possibly extreme turbulence. This is just a guess on my part. An aircraft designer/engineer may be able to shed some light.
While not EXACTLY a min TOW, the B744 has a min in flight weight, 170,460Kg for Charlie Q operations. Utterly pointless limitation, no BEW is less than 180,000Kg, but in the manuals though. Our GE B744 does not have this limitation.
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would the min TO or Landing wt not effect the braking efficiency due to less normal load, insufficient drag to actually fly the ac into Grd effect or increase float to unacceptable limits or the likes?
Just speculating...
Just speculating...