Which Aircraft Can Take Off Without Flaps?
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: NH
A few years ago, one of our FAs, who has been studying to be a pilot, noticed an aileron full up during taxi-out while looking out a cabin window (she was a ticketed passenger riding another airline, in an MD-80 series airplane), and mentioned it to the cabin crew. The aircraft stopped, one of the pilots came back and had a look for himself. They went back to the gate. Who knows what may have happened had they gone airborne with it?
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 1
From: AEP
Flapless F-104...?
Someone asked the speed for a F-104 flaps up approach/landing...?
Ref.: NATO Dash-1 Manual (F-104G - J79-GE-17)
High key is 280 KIAS, low key is 240 KIAS...
Flaps are up, and boundary layer control INOP...
xxx
By the way, ANY airplane could takeoff FLAPS UP...
Provided plenty of runway (shall we say 20,000 ft long, or about...)
And tyres capable of very high speeds, like 220+ knots...
xxx
Radials and white walls optional for the Michelins...
Happy contrails
Ref.: NATO Dash-1 Manual (F-104G - J79-GE-17)
High key is 280 KIAS, low key is 240 KIAS...
Flaps are up, and boundary layer control INOP...
xxx
By the way, ANY airplane could takeoff FLAPS UP...
Provided plenty of runway (shall we say 20,000 ft long, or about...)
And tyres capable of very high speeds, like 220+ knots...
xxx
Radials and white walls optional for the Michelins...
Happy contrails
Guest
Posts: n/a
Belargusa
It was me that asked about the 104.
But I asked what Vr would be flapless.
Obviously the thing will land flapless- any a/c could lose flap function airborne.
But could it take off like that- if you lengthened the Runway at Luke ,say.
It was me that asked about the 104.
But I asked what Vr would be flapless.
Obviously the thing will land flapless- any a/c could lose flap function airborne.
But could it take off like that- if you lengthened the Runway at Luke ,say.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 417
Likes: 0
From: Nearest Bombardier AMO
So will the Global Express, if fitted with the appropriate tires. With slats extended, that is. Will need approximately 1700 foot more runway, depending on conditions, obviously. Not approved yet in JAA-land, but coming, I'm told.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Asia
I am curious when I am going to be told which transport category aircraft takes off 0 Flaps, and it's considered the safest condition to do so..Oh...well...probably doesn't matter...if the airlines aren't burning up all available runway with zero flap takeoffs, then they are with Flex/reduced thrust...
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Alicante
A few years ago, one of our FAs, who has been studying to be a pilot, noticed an aileron full up during taxi-out while looking out a cabin window (she was a ticketed passenger riding another airline, in an MD-80 series airplane), and mentioned it to the cabin crew. The aircraft stopped, one of the pilots came back and had a look for himself. They went back to the gate. Who knows what may have happened had they gone airborne with it?
d'oh!
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 480
Likes: 0
From: Scandiland
Lookforshooter:
Although the Saab 340 manual doesn't say anything about it, a flap 0 departure is the preferred method. A slightly longer take off roll, but a significantly better second segment climb and also it is significantly easier to handle the plane single engine with the flaps up.
15 is used for short runways and tailwind departures. Otherwise allways 0 flap.
/LnS
Although the Saab 340 manual doesn't say anything about it, a flap 0 departure is the preferred method. A slightly longer take off roll, but a significantly better second segment climb and also it is significantly easier to handle the plane single engine with the flaps up.
15 is used for short runways and tailwind departures. Otherwise allways 0 flap.
/LnS
Fleet Manager
Joined: Apr 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,447
Likes: 310
From: various places .....
I am curious when I am going to be told which transport category aircraft takes off 0 Flaps, and it's considered the safest condition to do so
Not a question of "safest condition". The AFM provides the boundary conditions and the operator/crew then determine which is the most appropriate configuration for takeoff on a given occasion. Considerations of safety will be a part of this determination.
Not a question of "safest condition". The AFM provides the boundary conditions and the operator/crew then determine which is the most appropriate configuration for takeoff on a given occasion. Considerations of safety will be a part of this determination.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Asia
Thanks for the posts...I was curious if it made sense on any of the bigger AC to actualy take off 0 flaps...given increased runway lengths...I certainly have selected LESS flaps to make second segment, always nice to have the choice...
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 51
From: Blighty (Nth. Downs)
Glad Yorky Towers (not surprisingly, from Coventry) finally mentioned the Gooney Bird, saving me the trouble.
But, just for the record, we used also to do it in the Dart-Herald on hot days, provided the runway was long enough; always with water-methanol injection for extra power. Like the F27 and others, it's to enable a decent RTOW when the second-segment climb gradient (WAT) would otherwise be a problem. It gave us a better payload out of Southampton, but not out of Guernsey or Jersey (too short).
Lookforshooter, perhaps you are not old enough to remember large piston aeroplanes that got airborne in half the runway length; then struggled to clear a 100-foot hill one mile beyond the airfield boundary?
The prototype piston (Leonides) Herald was lost at Khartoum, because it failed to climb through an inversion layer. Does anyone know whether it was using flap for take-off?
But, just for the record, we used also to do it in the Dart-Herald on hot days, provided the runway was long enough; always with water-methanol injection for extra power. Like the F27 and others, it's to enable a decent RTOW when the second-segment climb gradient (WAT) would otherwise be a problem. It gave us a better payload out of Southampton, but not out of Guernsey or Jersey (too short).
Lookforshooter, perhaps you are not old enough to remember large piston aeroplanes that got airborne in half the runway length; then struggled to clear a 100-foot hill one mile beyond the airfield boundary?
The prototype piston (Leonides) Herald was lost at Khartoum, because it failed to climb through an inversion layer. Does anyone know whether it was using flap for take-off?
