PA28 & PA44 Pitch Attiude

[Leave 5 on the glide]

Hi All,

Could someone tell me what sort of initial target pitch attitude should be used on take-off rotation in the PA28 and PA44 please?

Thanks very much in advance,

l5otg

[bucket_and_spade]

Hi,

Never really thought in terms of pitch attitudes (for takeoff) on a light single as the nose attitudes are relatively low (on the artificial horizon at least) - I'd go more with a target speed (the two are linked of course).

Sitting the top engine cowling on the horizon would probably be a good start before seeing what the speed's doing...?

B&S

[Leave 5 on the glide]

B&S - thanks for the reply. I was thinking along the same lines, and I use a target speed of 79 kias, for example, in the PA28. I was just curious to see if anyone had a corresponding rough pitch attitude.

Cheers,

l5otg

[tttoon]

We were tought to pitch up to 12° on the PA28 initially, and after 1000' reduce to climb power (200RPM less than full) and pitch to keep 90kts (or whichever speed you want)

[Jetjock330]

It's been many years since flying a PA 44 (Seminole), but how about V2+10 for initial climb out. Should work out it almost any twin, or else blue line plus 10, if I remember.

[fullforward]

Hei Ttoon!!!!!

Are you serious?
If you pitch up 12 deg following rotation in a PA 28 you gonna stoll big time in less than 10 seconds!!
At 60 kt and with less than 5 deg this little bird is already nicely flying...

[ACMS]

I've never been in a PA28 or PA44 where the artificial horizon was good enough to set accurate pitch attitudes with. They are just too small and inaccurate to worry about exact numbers.

And you had to remember to set the aircraft symbol on the horizon line before T/O.

It may be different if your aircraft has a large glass display, they will be better.

[Heliplane]

For a single like the PA28, a good rule of thumb for takeoff is to keep the nose very light during the whole takeoff roll, let the plane lift off when it's ready, hold the top of the cowling just above the horizon (assuming you are neither a dwarf nor a giant) and let the plane do the rest. You'll find that gets you pretty close to the best rate of climb speed - perhaps with a bit of tweaking with the trim.

You'll need to pitch for the specific speeds a bit more in twins and, depending on weight, might find wider variances in pitch angles post rotation.

[ACMS]

Keep the nose very light during the T/O roll?


Oh yeah? with what flap setting? What trim setting ?rear of the manufacturers approved T/O band? What weight? A light PA28 is different to a heavy one.

1/ it would increase your TODR

2/ tis a bad technique you'll have to un-learn later on

There are situations that would warrant back pressure on the elevators such as a rough grass runway. But certainly not excessive back pressure on a hard surface for a normal T/O. You might even need slight forward pressure in a crosswind?

The PA28 is a "learners aircraft" and as such you should learn proper techniques that you can use later in more sophisticated aircraft.

Letting the Aircraft fly itself is not normally taught. ( nor is overcontrolling, there is a difference however. )

[elche]

G'day Mate,

Here's a video I made of a 1hr circuit session in a PA28-181 a few years back - pre-PPL days.
YouTube - Circuits Benny Hill style - Bankstown YSBK

You'll see in the video climbs at both Vx and Vy as I tried to keep a safe distance from a C150 ahead of me.

This particular Archer was a bit of a monster though, 75kts and 900fpm roc with 2pob and full tanks.

Don't mind the music - I thought it gives the viewer a good idea of what it's like in the circuit




cheerio

[Crankshaft]

after 1000' reduce to climb power (200RPM less than full)

As far as I've been told this is a really good way to gradually destroy the enginge. In a climb at lower levels with a normally aspirated piston engine the power should be left at full throttle in order to give the engine that extra fuel needed to cool it internally. The last inch of throttle movement gives it a slighly richer mixture. Therefore you should never reduce power in a normal climb.
This is just what I've been told so if anyone has evidence of the opposite I 'd be glad to share your knowledge.

When it comes to pitch attitudes in small aircrafts, as been already said, this will vary a lot depending on the actual weight and also very difficult to set due to the very small and inaccurate artificial horizonts used.

[elche]

Climb power on the 28's is 2500RPM, keep an eye out on the temperature and adjust your speed accordingly. ie. Temps creeping up - lower nose a touch and increase speed. If temps keep rising, you might need to reduce a little power and increase the speed by lowering the nose.

On a climb, and once past 1000' AGL, it's always good practice to lower the nose to improve forward visibility and get that extra bit of cool air flowing through the cowel. A cruise climb speed of 90kt is more than enough.

Once you've leveled out at your cruise alt, set 2300rpm/2400rpm and lean as required.

[bellend]

I never look for pitch, just airspeed

full power, maintain directional control, airspeed increasing 40kts slight pull back on elevator to take some weight of the nose and 55-60 the aircraft will start to lift, I maintain this until out of ground effect and aim for climb out at 70-75 to reach 1000 ft asap

[Crankshaft]

elche, I agree with your post totally.
However I'd like to state that you cannot actually define the climb power on a fixed pitch prop by an RPM. 2500 is roughly what you get with full throttle and 79kts. But if you choose to climb with a Vx it will give you a slighly lower RPM hence the lower speed, and if you take a cruise climb of 90 kts it will give you a higher RPM, (all providing you have a constant throttle position).

[elche]

Crankshaft,

Yeah my bad, sorry mate Got used to the CSU (25"/2500RPM). I meant to say full throttle.

My first couple of hrs were done in a Traumahawk (love that plane!!), and if i remember correctly, full power on T/O would give you 2300RPM, 2400RPM at cruise and 2500RPM on descent or a change in wind direction

[barit1]

It certainly depends on what kind of runway you are using. Sod strip, no obstacles, keep the nosewheel light & lift off as soon as it "wants" to fly (depends of TOGW of course), and let her accelerate in gnd effect to best ROC speed.

I never use hard surfaces so i won't comment there.

[Leave 5 on the glide]

Guys thanks for the replies. I have always pitched for a speed (blue line in the PA44), and not an angle; but someone asked we once what sort of angle I'd pitch for to which I couldn't give a decent answer so I was just seeing what the concensus was!

Cheers,
l5otg