Tricky failures on the 737
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Tricky failures on the 737
Guys,
how about collecting the most tricky failures on the 737 in sim and real life? Pilots like me, with low experience would profit very much!
What do you think?
Byebye!
OD
how about collecting the most tricky failures on the 737 in sim and real life? Pilots like me, with low experience would profit very much!
What do you think?
Byebye!
OD
Instructors who play games with student's confidence by introducing "tricky" failures, sometimes called "double -jeopardy" non-normals, have no business being employed as trainers. While QRH items need to be covered within commonsense reason, the fertile imagination of some instructor personalities needs to be tempered with a dose of realism.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Centauraus, you have a point, but did not answer the OP's question...
Here are the top three which I've seen handled really badly:
Engine failure with loss of thrust on final approach/in landing configuration (requires swift action to maintain control: flap 15, bug plus 15, accurate flying);
Engine fuel control failure on takeoff (EG only)(requires swift action to control flight path and respect limits, and action of the engine surge/limit/stall checklist from memory - it's not a recall list);
Engine failure in idle descent (EG only)(usually mis-diagnosed as gen failure).
Not a failure, but the most frequently screwed up maneouvre (both in the sim and on the line) is the two-engine go-around.
Here are the top three which I've seen handled really badly:
Engine failure with loss of thrust on final approach/in landing configuration (requires swift action to maintain control: flap 15, bug plus 15, accurate flying);
Engine fuel control failure on takeoff (EG only)(requires swift action to control flight path and respect limits, and action of the engine surge/limit/stall checklist from memory - it's not a recall list);
Engine failure in idle descent (EG only)(usually mis-diagnosed as gen failure).
Not a failure, but the most frequently screwed up maneouvre (both in the sim and on the line) is the two-engine go-around.
Moderator
Engine failure with loss of thrust on final approach/in landing configuration
Never ceased to amaze me how many folk in the box took forever to realise that one had run down ... and often too late to recover the situation ... a couple of practice looksees and it doesn't catch them again ...
I'm with Centaurus on silly systems failures .. but there is some value in prebriefed, no jeopardy, unusual handling problems .. even if only for the value in a pilot's having had a look at the situation. If, on the other hand, there is any associated pressure by the back-seater, most of the value evaporates ... as the guys end up worrying about what the instructor is thinking rather than using the exercise as a self-exposure/extension sort of thing.
Never ceased to amaze me how many folk in the box took forever to realise that one had run down ... and often too late to recover the situation ... a couple of practice looksees and it doesn't catch them again ...
I'm with Centaurus on silly systems failures .. but there is some value in prebriefed, no jeopardy, unusual handling problems .. even if only for the value in a pilot's having had a look at the situation. If, on the other hand, there is any associated pressure by the back-seater, most of the value evaporates ... as the guys end up worrying about what the instructor is thinking rather than using the exercise as a self-exposure/extension sort of thing.
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Engine failure with loss of thrust on final approach/in landing configuration (requires swift action to maintain control: flap 15, bug plus 15, accurate flying);
In my company we are allowed to maintain actual landing flap setting (30/40) when engine failure on final.
Only if thrust would be insufficient we must go back to 15.
Tried it in the box and works really fine, no more large pitch and roll changes. I was told that the swift return to flaps 15 (and all handling which comes with it) dated from the -200 series.
The "modern" CFM engines are powerfull enough to produce the thrust needed to recover engine failure with flap 30/40 on final.
In my company we are allowed to maintain actual landing flap setting (30/40) when engine failure on final.
Only if thrust would be insufficient we must go back to 15.
Tried it in the box and works really fine, no more large pitch and roll changes. I was told that the swift return to flaps 15 (and all handling which comes with it) dated from the -200 series.
The "modern" CFM engines are powerfull enough to produce the thrust needed to recover engine failure with flap 30/40 on final.
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CFM engines are powerfull enough to produce the thrust
Having played with both (200 and 300/400) in the sim at length ... all fine and beaut providing that the pilot twigs to the problem early .. let the speed get a bit too low (which happens quickly) and all that thrust has its own level of enchantment ...
Having played with both (200 and 300/400) in the sim at length ... all fine and beaut providing that the pilot twigs to the problem early .. let the speed get a bit too low (which happens quickly) and all that thrust has its own level of enchantment ...
Keeping in mind what Centaurus has said above
1. any slow loss of thrust in one engine where the horizon is not obvious out the window. (this is far more common than you think) some pilots catch it while others do not until it's too late.
2. An unexpected increase in thrust prior to V1 or during final (thankfuly rare)
While, I'm not a fan of throwing rare stuff into training sylabus, it does help to discuss them on boards like this.
1. any slow loss of thrust in one engine where the horizon is not obvious out the window. (this is far more common than you think) some pilots catch it while others do not until it's too late.
2. An unexpected increase in thrust prior to V1 or during final (thankfuly rare)
While, I'm not a fan of throwing rare stuff into training sylabus, it does help to discuss them on boards like this.
