Retard-Throttel back to idle?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In OY-VKH
Age: 31
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Retard-Throttel back to idle?
Hi,
When landing the bus and on final ,of course you hear the GPWS
and (50ft?) before touchdown the ''retard'' sound is going on...
So this 'retard'' means that you must power back to idle before touchdown
to make a good touchdown?
Sorry for my comfusing , but want to be sure
//Robin
When landing the bus and on final ,of course you hear the GPWS
and (50ft?) before touchdown the ''retard'' sound is going on...
So this 'retard'' means that you must power back to idle before touchdown
to make a good touchdown?
Sorry for my comfusing , but want to be sure
//Robin
It is important to have the throttles (Power Levers) at idle on touchdown so that the Ground Spoilers will deploy. Also so that Reverse can be selected.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: All over the place
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Robini
I have been taught that "retard" call out on normal approach is a guidance call out (a reminder), in reality if you dont at least begin to retard power you will end up floating down the runway past the touch down point, as the autothrust will come in and try to maintain Vapp. It is different if it is an autoland, in this case the retard call out is an instruction. And yes i am currently flying an Airbus. Hope this helps.
Regards, Mondeoman
Regards, Mondeoman
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Miami
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mondeoman:
You are half right, indeed the RETARD auto-callout is a reminder that you should be at idle by the time you hear it.
The most important thing to know is as you said, that auto-thrust will be active and chasing the target speed (either selected or managed) until the thust levers are manually selected to idle; even if you are flaring, this will lead to unwanted acceleration and power increase. Pilots are supposed to use the same airmanship as any other airplane to retard the thrust levers, not wait for instructions.
Where you are wrong is that the same applies to auto landings retard is not an order it is a reminder that you should be at idle, only with the added protection that the power will automatically come to idle if the thrust levers are not retarded.
barke:
It doesn't work this way on Airbus FBW because of the logic of the auto thrust, you must bring the thrust levers to idle for touch down, otherwise the speed will increase during your flare to maintain selected or managed speed.
G
You are half right, indeed the RETARD auto-callout is a reminder that you should be at idle by the time you hear it.
The most important thing to know is as you said, that auto-thrust will be active and chasing the target speed (either selected or managed) until the thust levers are manually selected to idle; even if you are flaring, this will lead to unwanted acceleration and power increase. Pilots are supposed to use the same airmanship as any other airplane to retard the thrust levers, not wait for instructions.
Where you are wrong is that the same applies to auto landings retard is not an order it is a reminder that you should be at idle, only with the added protection that the power will automatically come to idle if the thrust levers are not retarded.
barke:
It doesn't work this way on Airbus FBW because of the logic of the auto thrust, you must bring the thrust levers to idle for touch down, otherwise the speed will increase during your flare to maintain selected or managed speed.
G
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: flyover country USA
Age: 82
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of the first lessons a pilot learns (or should learn) is: To climb, increase throttle. To descend, reduce throttle. It's so obvious to an experienced pilot that we forget to spell it out to the newcomer.
The Cooler King
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In the Desert
Posts: 1,703
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Assuming our Swedish based friend is using a flightsim, why bombard the poor kid with data that he won't need for another few years yet.
In short, the answer is "Yes" put the throttles to IDLE mate!
In short, the answer is "Yes" put the throttles to IDLE mate!
Visual approach/landing:
You shouldn't hear the RETARD - if you do it is to tell you that you should of selected idle power. I select idle at 30ft and never hear RETARD. Works well. If it is not done by 20ft then you get RETARD. It is a reminder to allow speed to decrease below Vapp and not go into speed reversionary mode at the flare!!
Automatic landing:
You do hear the retard call at 20ft, it is an instruction. The engines have already commanded THR IDLE by now but for same reasons as above, you have to physically select Thrust Levers to IDLE.
Remember on the 'bus, the TL's are switches not throttles connected by cables to the donks.
You shouldn't hear the RETARD - if you do it is to tell you that you should of selected idle power. I select idle at 30ft and never hear RETARD. Works well. If it is not done by 20ft then you get RETARD. It is a reminder to allow speed to decrease below Vapp and not go into speed reversionary mode at the flare!!
Automatic landing:
You do hear the retard call at 20ft, it is an instruction. The engines have already commanded THR IDLE by now but for same reasons as above, you have to physically select Thrust Levers to IDLE.
Remember on the 'bus, the TL's are switches not throttles connected by cables to the donks.
PPRuNe supporter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You shouldn't hear the RETARD
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
when you close the throttles to IDLE after the RETARD call-out, does this automatically deactivate the Autothrust?
does the RETARD call still come if you are manually controlling thrust during final approach? or will it come nonetheless, due to the GPWS?
does the RETARD call still come if you are manually controlling thrust during final approach? or will it come nonetheless, due to the GPWS?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A/T always disconnects when you pull the levers to idle...
"Retard" sounds independently of the A/T status. It starts 20ft RA during a manual landing and at 10ft RA during landing with AP
"Retard" sounds independently of the A/T status. It starts 20ft RA during a manual landing and at 10ft RA during landing with AP
does the RETARD call still come if you are manually controlling thrust during final approach? or will it come nonetheless, due to the GPWS?
Dream land, fair point although you have rather dramatised my statement by saying 'chopping the power above 30ft is not an option'; not quite what I said, eh?
PPRuNe supporter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
kick the tires, sorry to put words in your mouth, just don't want anyone to do anything automatically at a certain height, weight, wind conditions, and density altitude play a big role. Happy landings, D.L.