Starting first engine ... but APU dies !
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,916
Likes: 0
From: W of 30W
So, main risk is EGT rising over limit ... HOT START
If manual start, operator will have to cut off fuel before EGT red mark.
If automatic sequence, FADEC should do the same ...
Any chance of tail pipe fire ... ?
If manual start, operator will have to cut off fuel before EGT red mark.
If automatic sequence, FADEC should do the same ...
Any chance of tail pipe fire ... ?
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Starting First Engine
Required action depends on Company SOPs and also dependant on how low are the N1,N2 and N3 readings. No specific numbers are available in any AMM but the start can be continued but being very very watchfull as long as the EGT readings do not overtake the N2 or N3 readings accordingly.(2 spool or 3 spool engine).
Chances of a Tailpipe fire are minimal if you cut off the fuel quickly enough.
As mentioned before FADEC equipped engines should handle the situation, but as with anything automated you still have to be aware.
Chances of a Tailpipe fire are minimal if you cut off the fuel quickly enough.
As mentioned before FADEC equipped engines should handle the situation, but as with anything automated you still have to be aware.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Elysion
Knowing the self-sustaining speed of your engine can be quite useful, although as manufacturers are increasingly reluctant to provide any technical details to aircrew, these numbers might be difficult to come by.
Another thing to consider is that, unless the external power is still plugged in, only battery power will be available, which might lead to a limited number of engine instruments available to monitor the start.
Selecting fuel off will certainly prevent a hot-start, or any start for that matter.
Another thing to consider is that, unless the external power is still plugged in, only battery power will be available, which might lead to a limited number of engine instruments available to monitor the start.
Selecting fuel off will certainly prevent a hot-start, or any start for that matter.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,916
Likes: 0
From: W of 30W
Thanks for your answers.
Excellent point !
Electrical power transfer + System Display logic might, for a few seconds, withdraw from view the critical EGT reading.
Another thing to consider is that, unless the external power is still plugged in, only battery power will be available, which might lead to a limited number of engine instruments available to monitor the start
Electrical power transfer + System Display logic might, for a few seconds, withdraw from view the critical EGT reading.
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: In the oil wealth of sand dunes
Had a similar problem before on the A340-600.
APU was U/S and so we used on ground power units and an air cart.
We start engine 2 first, then engine 1, pushback, set park brake cross bleed start 3 and 4.
This was the plan, however, we instructed the engineer to give air and opened the start master, when the ground power failed completely after the fuel went in. We lose all displays, bells and whistles going off. I continued the start by holding down the ENG key on the ECAM display and continued the starts on battery, and started engine two as well. Not a big deal, but it could go pear shaped quickly.
There are complications in only starting one engine on an A340 (not all busses are supplied) so you have faults ENG1 EPR mode and other ENG 1 minor faults.
The point is, we had a ground power during the start process and managed to continue on battery by holding down a key for the engine page to monitor and it all turned out OK.
APU was U/S and so we used on ground power units and an air cart.
We start engine 2 first, then engine 1, pushback, set park brake cross bleed start 3 and 4.
This was the plan, however, we instructed the engineer to give air and opened the start master, when the ground power failed completely after the fuel went in. We lose all displays, bells and whistles going off. I continued the start by holding down the ENG key on the ECAM display and continued the starts on battery, and started engine two as well. Not a big deal, but it could go pear shaped quickly.
There are complications in only starting one engine on an A340 (not all busses are supplied) so you have faults ENG1 EPR mode and other ENG 1 minor faults.
The point is, we had a ground power during the start process and managed to continue on battery by holding down a key for the engine page to monitor and it all turned out OK.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,266
Likes: 0
From: uk
Our Ops Manual for A319/320/321 is supposedly pretty similar to Airbus SOPs from FCOM 3, and includes this line during the engine start bit:
Doesn't seem to allow for the 'suck-it-and-see' kind of discretion considered on some types during this discussion.
In case the electrical power supply is interrupted during the start sequence (indicated by the loss of ECAM DUs) abort the start by switching OFF the MASTER switch. Then perform a 30-second dry crank.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 277
Likes: 10
From: 4 seasons hotel
CONF,
Sounds like you're in the B737. Common to happen as the combination of weak APU,electrical load shed not chopping off the non essentials quick enough and etc. What I used to do was to turn OFF the galley power on pushing back.I am with an Asian carrier that serve hot meal on a 1hr 20min leg.Crew were time pressed to heat meals.
If this senario happen,reach for the STBY PWR tranfer switch to ON,if N2 below 40%,it is unlikely to start.Cut the fuel quickly, if there is a hung start,flame might come out from the front and back of the engine burning up the wing tank and you have no means to motor the engine or blow the flame out.Sitting duck basically. It would be more scary at night since you would only have evac lights in the cabin.
Sounds like you're in the B737. Common to happen as the combination of weak APU,electrical load shed not chopping off the non essentials quick enough and etc. What I used to do was to turn OFF the galley power on pushing back.I am with an Asian carrier that serve hot meal on a 1hr 20min leg.Crew were time pressed to heat meals.
If this senario happen,reach for the STBY PWR tranfer switch to ON,if N2 below 40%,it is unlikely to start.Cut the fuel quickly, if there is a hung start,flame might come out from the front and back of the engine burning up the wing tank and you have no means to motor the engine or blow the flame out.Sitting duck basically. It would be more scary at night since you would only have evac lights in the cabin.
