Derated thrust
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Derated thrust
As derated thrust is considered a normal take-off as distinct from a reduced thrust take-off I'm trying to find out if there are any restrictions imposed on the use of derated thrust ie MEL, CDL items, runway conditions etc. I can find nothing in JARS/ CS. Are there any company imposed restrictions?
Appreciate your help.
Thanks
elcol.
Appreciate your help.
Thanks
elcol.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: flyover country USA
Age: 82
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Often a "derate" of a growth version of an engine is merely the original, lower nameplate rating of the early version of same engine. Since this was the way the aircraft was originally certified, then the original aircraft limitations apply.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good morning.
De-rate limitations are related to how de-rate is achieved. If it's a FADEC selection option and the maximum available thrust following an engine failure is limited downstream of the thrust levers, you tend to get fewer restrictions. If, on the other hand, it's an N1 setting and you can push the thrust levers beyond the de-rate position to get full rated thrust, then expect limitations.
Why? Because, unlike assumed temperature thrust reduction (flex), de-rate certification is the whole program, including Vmc for the lower thrust setting. Because V1 and, by association, other key speeds are tied to Vmc, it is possible to have a V1 and V2 at the de-rate thrust that would lie below Vmc at fully rated thrust. Lose an engine, select fully rated thrust and you may have a problem.
Certain national authorities may place further restrictions on the operational use of de-rate. For example, on low friction runways, weight drops as V1 does, until you get to Vmcg and V1 can't drop any further. At this point, you can see a precipitous drop in weight as runway length declines. Using a de-rated thrust, with lower Vmcg, permits a lower selectable V1, so weight decrements will fall more gradually until you hit the lower Vmcg. In this window, from the full-rating Vmcg to the de-rate Vmcg, it will be possible to lift more weight at de-rate than at full thrust.
Some regulators don't like the math of this method, depending on the degree of suspicion they place on the manufacturer's methods for performance calculations for wet and contaminated runways. In these cases, you may see a further restriction prohibiting takeoff weights in excess of what can be lifted at full thrust. Clearly, manufacturers and operators dealing with these regulators are not happy about it.....
Vs
De-rate limitations are related to how de-rate is achieved. If it's a FADEC selection option and the maximum available thrust following an engine failure is limited downstream of the thrust levers, you tend to get fewer restrictions. If, on the other hand, it's an N1 setting and you can push the thrust levers beyond the de-rate position to get full rated thrust, then expect limitations.
Why? Because, unlike assumed temperature thrust reduction (flex), de-rate certification is the whole program, including Vmc for the lower thrust setting. Because V1 and, by association, other key speeds are tied to Vmc, it is possible to have a V1 and V2 at the de-rate thrust that would lie below Vmc at fully rated thrust. Lose an engine, select fully rated thrust and you may have a problem.
Certain national authorities may place further restrictions on the operational use of de-rate. For example, on low friction runways, weight drops as V1 does, until you get to Vmcg and V1 can't drop any further. At this point, you can see a precipitous drop in weight as runway length declines. Using a de-rated thrust, with lower Vmcg, permits a lower selectable V1, so weight decrements will fall more gradually until you hit the lower Vmcg. In this window, from the full-rating Vmcg to the de-rate Vmcg, it will be possible to lift more weight at de-rate than at full thrust.
Some regulators don't like the math of this method, depending on the degree of suspicion they place on the manufacturer's methods for performance calculations for wet and contaminated runways. In these cases, you may see a further restriction prohibiting takeoff weights in excess of what can be lifted at full thrust. Clearly, manufacturers and operators dealing with these regulators are not happy about it.....
Vs
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It all depends on the airline's policies. Until recently we used fixed derates in our 744 fleet and reduced thrust in our 747 Classic fleet. The 744s are transitioning to reduced thrust with the introduction of OPS performance computers.
AFAIK, there are no additional restrictions with the use of either method.
AFAIK, there are no additional restrictions with the use of either method.
