ICAO require 250k below 10,000?
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ICAO require 250k below 10,000?
Does ICAO require 250k below 10,000 feet? Does the JAA address this sort of thing, or would it just defer to ICAO?
And, anybody know if China has any general rules concerning speed?
Thank you!
And, anybody know if China has any general rules concerning speed?
Thank you!
Interesting topic
I have being saying for years that China does not have the 250 <10,000 restriction. I have had animated discussions with people in higher places than I. Most assume this can't be possible and when they realized I was right they simply implemented a company policy to that effect.
JAA have nothing to do with Chinese rules. ICAO do however publish Airspace Classifications that prescribe speed limits in certain airspace depending on flight rules.
Speed restrictions can be promulgated by individual states in two ways;
1. By adopting ICAO airspace classification.
2. Publishing speed restrictions in an AIP or equivalent, which then makes it into Jepp or your equivalent.
China has NOT adopted ICAO airspace classification nor does it have any speed restrictions in its AIP. This is published in the Jepp and can be confirmed by looking in the Chinese AIP. Therefore any speed restrictions must be published on an individual airport case. The only place that I know of at the moment is CAN (Guangzhou) and this is clearly written on approach charts. Funny how Jepp reads the AIP!
There is one exception to this however; In the Sanya Oceanic airspace (which is coincidently the airspace where they use 'feet' FLs) there IS a speed restriction of 250 below 10,000. Big deal! There are no airports out there in oceanic airspace and unless you are landing the jet powered Beriev amphibian on the water, this will not affect you.
So this means you can fly into Beijing, Pudong, Kunming or anywhere else at any speed you like. It also means you can do a high speed climb and not need to ask for it.
This is a little known fact for many reasons. Most pilots flying in China (and I don't mean Chinese pilots) are now flying Boeing or Airbus and they are both speed limited in their FMSs by default. Most don't read the AIP. Most don't care to look at ICAO airspace classifications.
Am I advocating high speed below 10,000 as an SOP?. No. For example, if you do it going into PEK or or PVG on a busy day they will only tell you to slow down.
What I am saying is, it is there if you need it. If you wish to do a high speed climb which saves time and fuel do it. If you are departing in a heavy and need to, do it without a request for high speed. If you are landing a freighter in the middle of the night with no traffic around, go for it. If ATC hold you high then descend you late, wind up the speed and pull the pilot correction lever out, but don't ask for high speed coz your are approved.
Simple.....
JAA have nothing to do with Chinese rules. ICAO do however publish Airspace Classifications that prescribe speed limits in certain airspace depending on flight rules.
Speed restrictions can be promulgated by individual states in two ways;
1. By adopting ICAO airspace classification.
2. Publishing speed restrictions in an AIP or equivalent, which then makes it into Jepp or your equivalent.
China has NOT adopted ICAO airspace classification nor does it have any speed restrictions in its AIP. This is published in the Jepp and can be confirmed by looking in the Chinese AIP. Therefore any speed restrictions must be published on an individual airport case. The only place that I know of at the moment is CAN (Guangzhou) and this is clearly written on approach charts. Funny how Jepp reads the AIP!
There is one exception to this however; In the Sanya Oceanic airspace (which is coincidently the airspace where they use 'feet' FLs) there IS a speed restriction of 250 below 10,000. Big deal! There are no airports out there in oceanic airspace and unless you are landing the jet powered Beriev amphibian on the water, this will not affect you.
So this means you can fly into Beijing, Pudong, Kunming or anywhere else at any speed you like. It also means you can do a high speed climb and not need to ask for it.
This is a little known fact for many reasons. Most pilots flying in China (and I don't mean Chinese pilots) are now flying Boeing or Airbus and they are both speed limited in their FMSs by default. Most don't read the AIP. Most don't care to look at ICAO airspace classifications.
Am I advocating high speed below 10,000 as an SOP?. No. For example, if you do it going into PEK or or PVG on a busy day they will only tell you to slow down.
What I am saying is, it is there if you need it. If you wish to do a high speed climb which saves time and fuel do it. If you are departing in a heavy and need to, do it without a request for high speed. If you are landing a freighter in the middle of the night with no traffic around, go for it. If ATC hold you high then descend you late, wind up the speed and pull the pilot correction lever out, but don't ask for high speed coz your are approved.
Simple.....
Last edited by Maisk Rotum; 10th Mar 2008 at 10:51.
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250kt
ICAO
Depends on the class of airspace, all airspaces where visual separation is used has the restriction below 10000 feet. (class C and lower) In C and D airspace ATC can remove the restriction (since they should know if there is any affected visually separated traffic)
IRL
Depends on the legislation of each country but all deviations from ICAO should be published in the AIP ( I would bet for some of the early chapters of GEN)
Then there can of course be specific requirements (ATC or other) for a certain approach but then it should be on the plate.
Depends on the class of airspace, all airspaces where visual separation is used has the restriction below 10000 feet. (class C and lower) In C and D airspace ATC can remove the restriction (since they should know if there is any affected visually separated traffic)
IRL
Depends on the legislation of each country but all deviations from ICAO should be published in the AIP ( I would bet for some of the early chapters of GEN)
Then there can of course be specific requirements (ATC or other) for a certain approach but then it should be on the plate.
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Couldn't find a restriction at Kunming but did find the following at these fields:
ZBAA - MAX 250KTS at or below 9850'
and
ZGGG - MAX 250KT at or below FL 108
ZBAA - MAX 250KTS at or below 9850'
and
ZGGG - MAX 250KT at or below FL 108
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Great answers, all! 
Here's a link to ICAO Annex 11
http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Ann.../an11_13ed.pdf
Thank you!
Here's a link to ICAO Annex 11
http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Ann.../an11_13ed.pdf
Thank you!
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all airspaces where visual separation is used has the restriction below 10000 feet. (class C and lower)
