Beyond the Black Box: the forensics of airplane crashes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beyond the Black Box: the forensics of airplane crashes
I've just received my copy of a first-class new book on the science behind airplane crashes. It's "Beyond the Black Box: the forensics of airplane crashes" by George Bibel (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2008; ISBN 10: 0801886317). Bibel is a retired professor of mechanical engineering and explains clearly and authoritatively, with a minimum of technical jargon, why accidents happened they way they did. It's right up to date, including even the Helios B737 and AF358 accidents, though of course it was published before the official report on the latter was released.
Rockhound
Rockhound
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: France
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...and given the AF accident, it pretty much makes proper accident investigation redundant, doesn't it? 
I wonder if Prof Bibel is interested in facts or sales... I know, in his shoes, I would only be after the sales.
I wonder if Prof Bibel is interested in facts or sales... I know, in his shoes, I would only be after the sales.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hamster,
No, you've got it wrong. Bibel's book is very much supplementary to the official aviation accident investigations. It discusses the science and technology underlying accidents. In the preface, Bibel states that the book is about aviation accidents "that illustrate concepts of physical science". He aims to reveal "intriguing accident stories to a general audience and to illustrate and teach the critically relevant science and engineering principles that guide aircraft design". I believe there's a real need for a book like this, given the typical sensationalist coverage of aviation accidents by the media. I'm sure that many professional aviators would also gain from reading this book.
Rockhound
No, you've got it wrong. Bibel's book is very much supplementary to the official aviation accident investigations. It discusses the science and technology underlying accidents. In the preface, Bibel states that the book is about aviation accidents "that illustrate concepts of physical science". He aims to reveal "intriguing accident stories to a general audience and to illustrate and teach the critically relevant science and engineering principles that guide aircraft design". I believe there's a real need for a book like this, given the typical sensationalist coverage of aviation accidents by the media. I'm sure that many professional aviators would also gain from reading this book.
Rockhound
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Grand Forks North Dakota
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I liked to jump in if I can.
1. Thanks for the nice review, but I'm not retired.
2. I'm certainly interested in sales, but if the first printing sells out, it will work out to about $2 per hour.
3. There were sufficient facts about the successful evacuation of AF358 on the official Canadian TSB website. Beside I had incredible TSB photos, one of which appears on the cover. Also I found it interesting (the basic criteria of everything in the book) that evacuation has to occur in less than 90 seconds with half the exists blocked.
4. Not being a pilot, I took great pains to avoid piloting issues. But I do think I know a thing or two about how things break.
I would be very happy to hear what you liked or didn't like.
1. Thanks for the nice review, but I'm not retired.
2. I'm certainly interested in sales, but if the first printing sells out, it will work out to about $2 per hour.
3. There were sufficient facts about the successful evacuation of AF358 on the official Canadian TSB website. Beside I had incredible TSB photos, one of which appears on the cover. Also I found it interesting (the basic criteria of everything in the book) that evacuation has to occur in less than 90 seconds with half the exists blocked.
4. Not being a pilot, I took great pains to avoid piloting issues. But I do think I know a thing or two about how things break.
I would be very happy to hear what you liked or didn't like.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Grand Forks North Dakota
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wished I had said a little more.
If you think the book is superficial compared to an NTSB report or the pilot's responsibilities, than I won't disagree. Because of my background, the book is about everything (OK many things) that can go wrong except pilot error, and what they do about it. Occasionally I talk about the pilots if there is an interesting story or a science message.
I'm certainly not trying to replace the NTSB. I just tried to write a science book that hopefully tells interesting stories. I have used these stories with great success with graduate engineering students and middle school teachers. Planes popping like balloons, people sucked out of windows, engines spinning apart, crash loads, g forces, etc. I think all textbooks are boring compared to this stuff.
Although I tell spectacular stories, I also explained the investigation process and safety improvements. One reviewer said, in spite of describing crash after crash, you'll still left with a feeling that flying is pretty darn safe.
After immersing myself in crash reports, FAA reports, NASA reports, newspaper accounts, etc for 3 years; I have nothing but respect for all phases of commercial aviation and tried to reflect that in my book.
If you think the book is superficial compared to an NTSB report or the pilot's responsibilities, than I won't disagree. Because of my background, the book is about everything (OK many things) that can go wrong except pilot error, and what they do about it. Occasionally I talk about the pilots if there is an interesting story or a science message.
I'm certainly not trying to replace the NTSB. I just tried to write a science book that hopefully tells interesting stories. I have used these stories with great success with graduate engineering students and middle school teachers. Planes popping like balloons, people sucked out of windows, engines spinning apart, crash loads, g forces, etc. I think all textbooks are boring compared to this stuff.
Although I tell spectacular stories, I also explained the investigation process and safety improvements. One reviewer said, in spite of describing crash after crash, you'll still left with a feeling that flying is pretty darn safe.
After immersing myself in crash reports, FAA reports, NASA reports, newspaper accounts, etc for 3 years; I have nothing but respect for all phases of commercial aviation and tried to reflect that in my book.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Prof Bibel,
Apologies for "retiring" you (no idea why I thought that). As a non-pilot but aviation enthusiast - known on this site (from which I learn a lot) as SLF (Self-loading Freight) - I'm much enjoying your book.
Best wishes.
Rockhound
Apologies for "retiring" you (no idea why I thought that). As a non-pilot but aviation enthusiast - known on this site (from which I learn a lot) as SLF (Self-loading Freight) - I'm much enjoying your book.
Best wishes.
Rockhound
Moderator
I think that we have noted the existence of the document to an adequate degree ......
a request has been made to continue discussion on the book so the thread is re-opened.
a request has been made to continue discussion on the book so the thread is re-opened.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: reston, va
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NY Times
Professor Bibel (the author) just contributed an op-ed article in the NY Times today about one of the themes of his new book: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/26/opinion/26bibel.html
in the NY Times today about one of the themes of his new book: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/26/opinion/26bibel.html
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Bielefeld, Germany
Posts: 955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by stretchy54
Professor Bibel (the author) just contributed an op-ed article in the NY Times today about one of the themes of his new book:
I haven't read the book, but sympathise greatly with its aims. I guess it is intended to follow in the tradition of some of Petroski's work, Gordon's "Structures", and so on.
Paul Marks of the New Scientist, whom I know, and who follows aviation and computer-safety issues, reviewed it there (issue 2628, 3 November 2007).
PBL
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: In the library
Age: 85
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beyond the Black Box: the forensics of airplane crashes
I've just received my copy of a first-class new book on the science behind airplane crashes. It's "Beyond the Black Box: the forensics of airplane crashes" by George Bibel (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2008; ISBN 10: 0801886317). Bibel is a retired professor of mechanical engineering and explains clearly and authoritatively, with a minimum of technical jargon, why accidents happened they way they did. It's right up to date, including even the Helios B737 and AF358 accidents, though of course it was published before the official report on the latter was released.
Rockhound
This is little more than an advert & the moderators should remove/close it
Tristar 500
I've just received my copy of a first-class new book on the science behind airplane crashes. It's "Beyond the Black Box: the forensics of airplane crashes" by George Bibel (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2008; ISBN 10: 0801886317). Bibel is a retired professor of mechanical engineering and explains clearly and authoritatively, with a minimum of technical jargon, why accidents happened they way they did. It's right up to date, including even the Helios B737 and AF358 accidents, though of course it was published before the official report on the latter was released.
Rockhound
This is little more than an advert & the moderators should remove/close it
Tristar 500
This is little more than an advert & the moderators should remove/close it
Tristar 500
Tristar 500
Is there a general line to be crossed that this posting seems to violate?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: In the library
Age: 85
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE]
I'm neutral at this point since it doesn't flood the forums and was only a single informative (here it is) posting.
Is there a general line to be crossed that this posting seems to violate?
I beleive PPRune accepts adverts for money not freebies!!
Tristar 500
I'm neutral at this point since it doesn't flood the forums and was only a single informative (here it is) posting.
Is there a general line to be crossed that this posting seems to violate?
I beleive PPRune accepts adverts for money not freebies!!
Tristar 500
Moderator
.. something about a rock and a hard place ..
I originally locked it for just this concern but re-opened it after receiving some requests to permit discussion.
My assessment at this stage is that
(a) there may be some useful discussion
(b) the thread will disappear of its own accord in due course
It is reasonable to presume that those further up the totem pole, likewise, are watching and will act appropriately if they consider it to be a little too close to advertising ....
I originally locked it for just this concern but re-opened it after receiving some requests to permit discussion.
My assessment at this stage is that
(a) there may be some useful discussion
(b) the thread will disappear of its own accord in due course
It is reasonable to presume that those further up the totem pole, likewise, are watching and will act appropriately if they consider it to be a little too close to advertising ....
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stuck in the middle...
Posts: 1,638
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
FWIW IMHO it's worth allowing this thread, since anyone who has read the book has a chance to air their views (good or bad) and perhaps have then addressed by the author (or at least someone purporting to be the author).
Personally, I am interested in air crash investigations (I read reports as a bit of a hobby and soaked up Macarthur Job's books) and so had planned to read Prof Bibel's work; the first post in this thread, Tristar 500, has no so much acted as an advertisement as far as I'm concerned, but simply alerted me to its wider availability than I thought and opened a discussion as to the book's technical accuracy.
So I, for one, would ask that this thread be left open. If you don't happen to like it, then don't click on the link to it and you're always free to cancel the 'subscription' which sends you emails each time there's a new post.
Personally, I am interested in air crash investigations (I read reports as a bit of a hobby and soaked up Macarthur Job's books) and so had planned to read Prof Bibel's work; the first post in this thread, Tristar 500, has no so much acted as an advertisement as far as I'm concerned, but simply alerted me to its wider availability than I thought and opened a discussion as to the book's technical accuracy.
So I, for one, would ask that this thread be left open. If you don't happen to like it, then don't click on the link to it and you're always free to cancel the 'subscription' which sends you emails each time there's a new post.
