Is Algae the next big thing?
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Is Algae the next big thing?
Given the current oil price, and the vocal environmental lobby, what do the technically minded PPruner's think of the potential for Algae based jetfuel?
Although the industry is presently in its infancy it gives the appearance of being able to offer a cost effective and environmentally friendly solution.
Thoughts and opinions please
Although the industry is presently in its infancy it gives the appearance of being able to offer a cost effective and environmentally friendly solution.
Thoughts and opinions please
Dog Tired
757M,
We didn't want this news to get out but you've done it now.
Yes, my company is working on an engine that runs on algae (or mushroom compost for the richer city-pairs). Trouble is: we can't get the igniters to fire and the fuel lines keep getting clogged.
I'll keep you informed.
Algaenon
We didn't want this news to get out but you've done it now.
Yes, my company is working on an engine that runs on algae (or mushroom compost for the richer city-pairs). Trouble is: we can't get the igniters to fire and the fuel lines keep getting clogged.
I'll keep you informed.
Algaenon
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My money is on Craig Venter, the man who mapped the human genome. He has founded Synthetic Genomics and signed agreements with BP to research producing synthetic fuels using biology. Just a matter of when it will happen.
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I think you'll find most aircraft are flying about currently using algae based fuel, it just happens to have been cooked over the last few hundred million years and subsequently extracted and refined into JetA!! 
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Very interesting article in National Geographic a few months ago about this subject.
Seems Algae groth rate and calorific value in oil form is better than any existing synthetic produced oil ...
I still think Hydrogen is the way forward if a safe reliable storage method can be found ... but the Algae concept is far better and further advanced than people give it credit for ..
Seems Algae groth rate and calorific value in oil form is better than any existing synthetic produced oil ...
I still think Hydrogen is the way forward if a safe reliable storage method can be found ... but the Algae concept is far better and further advanced than people give it credit for ..
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Problem with hydrogen is that:
(1) impossibly difficult to store it on an aircraft.
(2) You need to expend energy to separate it from water in the first place.
RR Dart Engines have been run on soya oil.
The real issue as alluded to above is that it gels and clogs fuel lines above -40 celsius. The FAA specs for jet fuel require viscosity down to -40C and biofuels so far can't do that economically.
Yes you can add anti gelling agents, but not economically so.
Rape seed oil and sunflower seed oil seem the best anti-gelling bets.
Algae can be grown at prodigious rates from city sewerage to produce ethanol.
The point really ought to be why fuss over adapting biofuels for aviation ?
Aviation accounts for only 2% of carbon emissions whilst private motor cars account for around 30%.
If you can reduce carbon emission from private motor cars by just 23% you will halt increases in global emission. If you halve carbon emissions by private motor cars then you will reverse the growth in global carbon emissions so why not concentrate on the possible rather than the impossible.
Few private motor vehicles need fuel to resist gelling above -40C.
(1) impossibly difficult to store it on an aircraft.
(2) You need to expend energy to separate it from water in the first place.
RR Dart Engines have been run on soya oil.
The real issue as alluded to above is that it gels and clogs fuel lines above -40 celsius. The FAA specs for jet fuel require viscosity down to -40C and biofuels so far can't do that economically.
Yes you can add anti gelling agents, but not economically so.
Rape seed oil and sunflower seed oil seem the best anti-gelling bets.
Algae can be grown at prodigious rates from city sewerage to produce ethanol.
The point really ought to be why fuss over adapting biofuels for aviation ?
Aviation accounts for only 2% of carbon emissions whilst private motor cars account for around 30%.
If you can reduce carbon emission from private motor cars by just 23% you will halt increases in global emission. If you halve carbon emissions by private motor cars then you will reverse the growth in global carbon emissions so why not concentrate on the possible rather than the impossible.
Few private motor vehicles need fuel to resist gelling above -40C.
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Algae.
This was tried in a few early JetStars, with poor results.
However, Lockheed made a fortune by supplying new wings...
And then there was the L1329 that was destined for Mobil Oil, until the fuselage was pressurized to 20psi differential...opps, another story..
This was tried in a few early JetStars, with poor results.
However, Lockheed made a fortune by supplying new wings...
And then there was the L1329 that was destined for Mobil Oil, until the fuselage was pressurized to 20psi differential...opps, another story..
Oilgae
Kiwiguy is bang on.
Credit to NZ based Aquaflow, who have developed a world leading process that has caught the attention of Boeing.
But although Algae based jet fuel sounds promising, it has one biiiiiig problem.
It doesn't like the cold of FL35+
In other words... any trials that publicity seekers like Virgin or Air NZ are running are a con.
The fuel will never be more than a 10%/90% blend of Olgae Jet A1 and the traditional stuff.
Any higher and it would freeze.
Air NZ know this... not that they'd ever say so publicly.
That's why the trial will be done on a non-paxing 744.
Credit to NZ based Aquaflow, who have developed a world leading process that has caught the attention of Boeing.
But although Algae based jet fuel sounds promising, it has one biiiiiig problem.
It doesn't like the cold of FL35+
In other words... any trials that publicity seekers like Virgin or Air NZ are running are a con.
The fuel will never be more than a 10%/90% blend of Olgae Jet A1 and the traditional stuff.
Any higher and it would freeze.
Air NZ know this... not that they'd ever say so publicly.
That's why the trial will be done on a non-paxing 744.
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Separation processes (BS from Potential)
Algae oil is one of the latest alternate fuel hot buttons (and scams) - that also has some real potential if approached from an economic feasibility standpoint (economics are always the fly in the ointment). You can spot the algae oil scams fairly easily. They are the ones that tout high levels of algae production, no fertilizer requirements and no pesticides (the latter being totally untrue), perhaps a patent on a genetically enhanced species of algae - just a little water and free sunshine and viola - oil.
For those of us that have pursued this potential fuel source, we know its not about algae production - that's the easy part. Algae oil economic feasibility challenges are in the fertilizer and post growout processing costs:
The idea of algae oil (like most) isn't new. Since the first oil crisis in the 70s, people have looked with interest at algae's high lipid production abilities. However, every time the algae oil (and other alternate fuel source) developers get close... the petroleum producers drop their prices and alternate fuels are no longer economically attractive for development. We've been through two or three of these cycles in the last 40 years, and there is no real reason to believe it won't happen again. Petroleum production may indeed be declining, but there are still huge reserves remaining and petroleum producers clearly control all aspects of the fuel markets. My on personal opinion is - that until the gov. provides a minimum petroleum fuel cost that alternate fuel developers can gauge their efforts against, (at least limiting petroleum producers from manipulating that end of the market) not much is going to change on the alternate fuel front. Hope this answers your questions.
For those of us that have pursued this potential fuel source, we know its not about algae production - that's the easy part. Algae oil economic feasibility challenges are in the fertilizer and post growout processing costs:
- The algae must be separated from the water.
- The algae cells have to be ruptured so the lipids can be claimed.
- The lipids have to be filtered - separated from the algae cellular debris and water.
- The lipids have to be stabilized to prevent microbial and chemical degradation so that they can efficiently stored.
These processes are resource intensive themselves anyone not reporting their costs as part of their PR program - has no serious investment or business potential. Department of Defense estimates that algae oil will cost around $20 per gallon - but it isn't clear on what rational or expertise these numbers are based on and that may be just as bad as some of the private investment scams. - The algae cells have to be ruptured so the lipids can be claimed.
- The lipids have to be filtered - separated from the algae cellular debris and water.
- The lipids have to be stabilized to prevent microbial and chemical degradation so that they can efficiently stored.
The idea of algae oil (like most) isn't new. Since the first oil crisis in the 70s, people have looked with interest at algae's high lipid production abilities. However, every time the algae oil (and other alternate fuel source) developers get close... the petroleum producers drop their prices and alternate fuels are no longer economically attractive for development. We've been through two or three of these cycles in the last 40 years, and there is no real reason to believe it won't happen again. Petroleum production may indeed be declining, but there are still huge reserves remaining and petroleum producers clearly control all aspects of the fuel markets. My on personal opinion is - that until the gov. provides a minimum petroleum fuel cost that alternate fuel developers can gauge their efforts against, (at least limiting petroleum producers from manipulating that end of the market) not much is going to change on the alternate fuel front. Hope this answers your questions.
