pax dies just after take off
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: united arab emirates
pax dies just after take off
OK all , I know you are all getting sick of me and my scenario's but I am always astounded at the different opinions we all have with regards things after an incident so I am trying to see what is considered across the board before it happens.
OK so you take off ( at Max Weight). Just after take off the purser advises a passenger has had a heart attack and is in bad shape.
Now off course go back and land immediately to get the said person the help they need. But you will be so heavy and melt the fuse plugs and put everyone at risk with a break fire ( potentially ) going straight back.
So what would you do ???
My take is to go back and yes if you melt a few plugs to save a life thats ok. However we have had incidences in our airline where a diversion was initiated based on what was thought to be a heart attack and turned out to be a mere panic attack. Again fine I guess if the outcome is OK but imagine a break fire followed by an evacuation for this !!!
Again made much easier when diverting enroute as you will have time to jettison on the diversion and potentially landing at a suitable weight to not worry about the brakes burning.
Any more considerations ???
OK so you take off ( at Max Weight). Just after take off the purser advises a passenger has had a heart attack and is in bad shape.
Now off course go back and land immediately to get the said person the help they need. But you will be so heavy and melt the fuse plugs and put everyone at risk with a break fire ( potentially ) going straight back.
So what would you do ???
My take is to go back and yes if you melt a few plugs to save a life thats ok. However we have had incidences in our airline where a diversion was initiated based on what was thought to be a heart attack and turned out to be a mere panic attack. Again fine I guess if the outcome is OK but imagine a break fire followed by an evacuation for this !!!
Again made much easier when diverting enroute as you will have time to jettison on the diversion and potentially landing at a suitable weight to not worry about the brakes burning.
Any more considerations ???
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Thailand
Overweight Landings
In the Autumn 2007 Flight Safety Focus magazine there is a very comprehensive article which will answer your 'scenario'.
There is no problem or danger carrying out an overweight landing. Aircraft are certified to land at their Max Take Off weight with a descent rate of 10feet/second. A normal landing would be at around 2-3 feet/sec and a 'hard' landing would be around 6-7ft/sec. If the patient needs medical attention without delay then a return and landing will be perfectly in order.
Incidentally, the fuse plugs would be very unlikely to melt if the aircraft lands on the runway of departure. They just might, although not for certain, melt if the aircraft had rejected the Take-Off from just below V1 at Max T/O weight.
So prepare for a landing ASAP and continue as normally. Save the life and be the heroes.
Mind you, you said he's dead so why hurry?
There is no problem or danger carrying out an overweight landing. Aircraft are certified to land at their Max Take Off weight with a descent rate of 10feet/second. A normal landing would be at around 2-3 feet/sec and a 'hard' landing would be around 6-7ft/sec. If the patient needs medical attention without delay then a return and landing will be perfectly in order.
Incidentally, the fuse plugs would be very unlikely to melt if the aircraft lands on the runway of departure. They just might, although not for certain, melt if the aircraft had rejected the Take-Off from just below V1 at Max T/O weight.
So prepare for a landing ASAP and continue as normally. Save the life and be the heroes.
Mind you, you said he's dead so why hurry?
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Over the Moon
The title suggests the passenger has died, the narrative merely says hes had a heart attack and is in poor shape.
If I was told a pax had suffered a heart attack I'd be returning or diverting.
I wouldn't be waiting for a doctor to certify he had died (if one was on board) as minutes could matter. I'd get on with it declaring a Mayday for a medical emerg. If a doctor subsequently certifies the patient as dead then the decision would be re assessed.
If I was told a pax had suffered a heart attack I'd be returning or diverting.
I wouldn't be waiting for a doctor to certify he had died (if one was on board) as minutes could matter. I'd get on with it declaring a Mayday for a medical emerg. If a doctor subsequently certifies the patient as dead then the decision would be re assessed.
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: 41,000 feet up
To Spannersatcx
If they are dead why would you go back?
Think about the poor pax that has to sit to the dead person. Would you want to sit next to a corpse??????
Then again you could ask the crew nicely if you could have his meal tray. He wont be needing it
.
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: flightdeck/earlyhours commute
Passenger dies just after takeoff?
A great many passengers travel accompanied. So grieving wife/husband etc?
Just after takeoff, I'm sure the majority of pax would understand a return. I'm equally sure many would question carrying on. So potentially a lot of additional problems later, especially for the cabin crew.
The only immediately governing factors to negate a return would be flight safety and weather.
Overweight landing. Not a major problem. You would do it for a great many technical reasons. Operate the aircraft normally.
Who is qualified to say the pax is actually dead? Unless there is a doctor sat next to the passenger at the time, then you are unlikely to have identified any medical personnel travelling. Assuming they own up.
A great many passengers travel accompanied. So grieving wife/husband etc?
Just after takeoff, I'm sure the majority of pax would understand a return. I'm equally sure many would question carrying on. So potentially a lot of additional problems later, especially for the cabin crew.
The only immediately governing factors to negate a return would be flight safety and weather.
Overweight landing. Not a major problem. You would do it for a great many technical reasons. Operate the aircraft normally.
Who is qualified to say the pax is actually dead? Unless there is a doctor sat next to the passenger at the time, then you are unlikely to have identified any medical personnel travelling. Assuming they own up.
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: UK
I'm surprised no one has slapped inappropriate RIPs and commiserations all over these posts.
If a pilot dies it's everywhere. Why not for a pax, or are they somehow of less value - despite the fact we don't know them from Adam either???
If a pilot dies it's everywhere. Why not for a pax, or are they somehow of less value - despite the fact we don't know them from Adam either???
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: In sight of the sharp-end, Oxon.
I cant believe you asked!
"If a pilot dies it's everywhere. Why not for a pax, or are they somehow of less value "
Logically, if the pilot dies just after takeoff, it's kinda serious as he's supposed to be operating the aircraft (unless you're suggesting that pilots are redundant once airborne?).
If SLF opt to cease functioning early, it doesn't really affect the flight.
In that situation, pilots have more value, IMHO.
Logically, if the pilot dies just after takeoff, it's kinda serious as he's supposed to be operating the aircraft (unless you're suggesting that pilots are redundant once airborne?).
If SLF opt to cease functioning early, it doesn't really affect the flight.
In that situation, pilots have more value, IMHO.
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Hades.
Incidentally, the fuse plugs would be very unlikely to melt if the aircraft lands on the runway of departure.
That depends on the a/c. Put a heavy back on the ground shortly after a MTOW departure and it's going to get hot down there
Better still, get a large roll of that catering wrap and .............
I'll bring my own biscuits
That depends on the a/c. Put a heavy back on the ground shortly after a MTOW departure and it's going to get hot down there
Better still, get a large roll of that catering wrap and .............
I'll bring my own biscuits
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 3,038
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From: .
Only asking, as I've met a few a/c on arrival that have had a pax die en route and they have carried on, recently wife's mothers relation died ex HKG en route to JFK via YVR, they never turned back and the body was removed at YVR and a few days later completed the journey to JFK. He was travelling with Son and Daughter I believe, I guess it depends where and when it happens and who with.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 812
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From: uk
Fourgolds,
Do not assume that all overweight landings will result in melting of the tyre fuse plugs. I have personally landed a A340 at 5tonnes below max TOW some 12 mins after take-off due to a major problem. Remember the brake energy to be dissipated from a V1 stop (given the field length remaining) is a lot higher than that required from a broadly similar (say 30kts faster) landing achieved at the start of the runway - especially if full reverse is available and one is able to modulate the braking to match the distance available. For the doubters out there we touched down at a Vapp of 177 kts, used full reverse on all engines on a 3500m runway and achieved brake temps of 400c!!
Do not assume that all overweight landings will result in melting of the tyre fuse plugs. I have personally landed a A340 at 5tonnes below max TOW some 12 mins after take-off due to a major problem. Remember the brake energy to be dissipated from a V1 stop (given the field length remaining) is a lot higher than that required from a broadly similar (say 30kts faster) landing achieved at the start of the runway - especially if full reverse is available and one is able to modulate the braking to match the distance available. For the doubters out there we touched down at a Vapp of 177 kts, used full reverse on all engines on a 3500m runway and achieved brake temps of 400c!!
