MK Airlines new SOP to minimize tyre bursts?

[cammron]

This is probably in the wrong forum but here go's

Two weeks ago MK ailines 747 took off on a cool Sunday Morning (10'c) from JNB.
He held his gear down for about 10 minutes untill cleared for his climb enroute to altitude after his turn and vectors .Heard whilst listening on the radios.
After their last spate of tyre bursts etc would this be the new SOP to minimize this "tyre burst risk" and cool the whole landing gear before retraction?

Any one know?

[Busbert]

Probably had a brake locked out, so the gear would have been left down to allow the wheel to spin down before retraction.

[hetfield]

Take a look at this

http://www.flightsafety.org/ap/ap_sep93.pdf

Recommendation of the investigation team is:

Each transport aircraft be equipped with:

- wheel well fire warning (my airbus doesn't have)
- wheel well fire protection (my airbus doesn't have)
- tyre pressure indication in cockpit (my airbus doesn't have)
- brake temperature indication (my airbus has, but according MEL may be inop)


In fact many airbuses fly around knowing nothing about heat condition in wheel well.

BTW, starting 01. September 2007 all new registered cars and trucks in the US must have a tyre pressure indication.

[MrBernoulli]

Just by way of contrast:

- main wheel well fire warning (my B777 does have).
- main wheel well fire protection (my B777 doesn't have).
- tyre pressure indication in cockpit (my B777 does have),
- brake temperature indication (my B777 does have - don't have the CDL/MEL handy so can't say what it says ....... but I don't think its a show-stopper).

[hetfield]

@MrBernoulli

It's just a matter of time for an incident/accident related to underinflated/flat tyre(s) on airbus without mentioned systems/warnings.

[formulav]

Leaving gear down

At the noted temp in the first posting, no reason I can see to leave the gear down. MAYBE THEY FORGOT TO RAISE IT!!! Would not be the first time or the last.

[BelArgUSA]

Proper procedure - brakes cooling 747

With Aerolineas Argentinas, our SOP - (747-200) is "brake temperatures must be in green band for all 16 brakes before start of takeoff roll". Then - in any case, RETRACT the gear after lift-off until reaching a safe height above obstacles (so to avoid compounding an engine failure with a gear down configuration) - F/E is checking brake temperatures during initial climb - if necessary, re-extend gear during climb to cool-off the brakes until all brakes indicate green band again...
xxx
Remember also that brake structure temperatures will keep on increasing for some 45 minutes after use of brakes on landing or taxi-out for takeoff... We have that procedure since some 10 years ago.
xxx
As far as MK is concerned, I had a short contract in 2000 to train their initial group of 747 pilots with their first 747, and I remember observing that procedure.

Happy contrails

[Rainboe]

At the noted temp in the first posting, no reason I can see to leave the gear down. MAYBE THEY FORGOT TO RAISE IT!!! Would not be the first time or the last.

What is extraordinary about this is the amazing verdict above, not the leaving the gear down after take-off! Please would non-747 pilots refrain themselves from reaching such idiotic verdicts and causes! Having flown 747s of 3 models for 18 years, I know it is a not uncommon event depending on brake temperatures which can quickly be critical, especially earlier Classic models. But don't make a darn fool of yourself pointing a finger of blame like this!

[Dan Winterland]

Having flown the classic, brake lock out is my favourite theory.

[CR2]

How about:

+-MLW, quick offload/refuel and out again (empty) < 90mins? Very typical 74F scenario. As B.A.U says, temps can still increase while on the stand.

[teghjeet]

Tyre Pressure Indicator is an option on the Airbus.
Brake Fan is available on Airbus
Amber indications generally at Temp 285 C
For take off min required is 185 with fans and Green band without fans(when inop or nt fittd)

I have not heard of hot wheels deflating in Airbus yet.

Kindly educate me if this has happenned.

Thank you

[CR2]

MK operate B742F.

Why is everyone on about Airbus/B777?

[HotDog]

Because they don't believe Europeans can build aircraft!

[chimbu warrior]

Even if the OAT was only 10C, the aircraft could have taxied a long distance with a heavy load, thus increasing tyre & brake temperature. Allowing it to cool prior to retraction sounds wise to me.

[hetfield]

@teghjeet

Tyre Pressure Indicator is an option on the Airbus.
Brake Fan is available on Airbus
Amber indications generally at Temp 285 C
For take off min required is 185 with fans and Green band without fans(when inop or nt fittd)

I have not heard of hot wheels deflating in Airbus yet.

Kindly educate me if this has happenned.

- indeed TPIS is an option (mine hasn't)
- indeed Brake fans are availabl and brake temp ind is standard (but may be inop)
- deflated tyres can can produce huge amounts of heat even in an airbus

regards

[teghjeet]

Thanx.

Just wanted to know if this is a common occurence on a320/330

[Thermal]

To get back onto the original topic of this thread...
I agree with Busbert...
"Probably had a brake locked out, so the gear would have been left down to allow the wheel to spin down before retraction."

Normally the brakes are automatically applied prior to gear retaction as the gyroscopic force of the spinning wheels is large.

[MrBernoulli]

CR2

Why is everyone on about Airbus/B777?

HotDog's reply

Because they don't believe Europeans can build aircraft!

Lighten up chaps! Other posters here were merely providing insight, from different perspectives, into the subject. This is a Tech forum after all.