744 Freighter Main Deck Fire Suppression
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noblues - one you may be interested in.
On 28-Nov-1987, a South African Airways Boeing B747-244B Combi, registered as ZS-SAS, lost control and crashed into the Indian Ocean near Mauritius. The aircraft was destroyed. There were 19 crewmembers and 140 passengers aboard, all were fatally injured.
At 23:48 UTC, the pilot of the Boeing B747 reported an emergency descent due to smoke in the aircraft to FL140 and requested emergency services at Plaisance Airport. At 00:07 the aircraft crashed into the sea, 134nm northeast of Mauritius and was 13 hours later. Three minutes earlier the pilot had acknowledged an instruction from Mauritius approach control to report at FL50.
Analysis of recorders, all salvaged from the seabed at 4500m, indicated that the crew was alerted by the smoke detection system to a fire in the right forward pallet, in the main deck cargo compartment. Evidence of the presence of smoke was found in the passenger cabin and galley and in the passenger trachea. The aircraft crashed because of the fire damage to the controls, or crew incapacitation, or crew distraction or a combination of these factors. The crew may have not been able to deal with the fire.
FAA Airworthiness Directive 89-18-12 R1 has been promulgated.
Safety recommendations: installation of additional area microphones, increased recording time for the cockpit voice recorder and additional time sequence underwater locator beacons for the flight recorders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_A...ays_flight_295 has some back ground and the controvesy surrounding the accident.
Portion of CVR at http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cvr871128.htm
On 28-Nov-1987, a South African Airways Boeing B747-244B Combi, registered as ZS-SAS, lost control and crashed into the Indian Ocean near Mauritius. The aircraft was destroyed. There were 19 crewmembers and 140 passengers aboard, all were fatally injured.
At 23:48 UTC, the pilot of the Boeing B747 reported an emergency descent due to smoke in the aircraft to FL140 and requested emergency services at Plaisance Airport. At 00:07 the aircraft crashed into the sea, 134nm northeast of Mauritius and was 13 hours later. Three minutes earlier the pilot had acknowledged an instruction from Mauritius approach control to report at FL50.
Analysis of recorders, all salvaged from the seabed at 4500m, indicated that the crew was alerted by the smoke detection system to a fire in the right forward pallet, in the main deck cargo compartment. Evidence of the presence of smoke was found in the passenger cabin and galley and in the passenger trachea. The aircraft crashed because of the fire damage to the controls, or crew incapacitation, or crew distraction or a combination of these factors. The crew may have not been able to deal with the fire.
FAA Airworthiness Directive 89-18-12 R1 has been promulgated.
Safety recommendations: installation of additional area microphones, increased recording time for the cockpit voice recorder and additional time sequence underwater locator beacons for the flight recorders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_A...ays_flight_295 has some back ground and the controvesy surrounding the accident.
Portion of CVR at http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cvr871128.htm
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Hi all, just wondering..
1) Can the main deck depressurise on the 744F without the upper deck depressurising ( with the staircase fire resistant door shut) during a fire sw activation?
2) Simmilary, is it possible for the flight deck, equipped with a bullet proof door with no blow out panels, to remain pressurised in an event of a cabin decompression on the 744 pax version?
3) How many O2 bottles does the 744F have for the cockpit crew and upper deck occupants respectively?
4) Why does the 744F MTOW decrease when the fuel density is below 0.78?
5) Why does the 744F MTOW decrease when the ZFW increases beyond 276T?
Thank you in advance. Cheers.
JL
1) Can the main deck depressurise on the 744F without the upper deck depressurising ( with the staircase fire resistant door shut) during a fire sw activation?
2) Simmilary, is it possible for the flight deck, equipped with a bullet proof door with no blow out panels, to remain pressurised in an event of a cabin decompression on the 744 pax version?
3) How many O2 bottles does the 744F have for the cockpit crew and upper deck occupants respectively?
4) Why does the 744F MTOW decrease when the fuel density is below 0.78?
5) Why does the 744F MTOW decrease when the ZFW increases beyond 276T?
Thank you in advance. Cheers.
JL
Last edited by Jon Lei; 28th Jul 2007 at 04:51. Reason: spelling
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1. No.
2. Not too familiar with pax version, but doubt it.
3. Hmm. Think its 2 in the fwd belly?
4. It does? Thought that was on some converted classics.
5. 276T-288T is what is known as Extended (or Variable) ZFW. Its a trade off of carrying a higher payload against a lower take-off weight. Useful for shorter trips.
2. Not too familiar with pax version, but doubt it.
3. Hmm. Think its 2 in the fwd belly?
4. It does? Thought that was on some converted classics.
5. 276T-288T is what is known as Extended (or Variable) ZFW. Its a trade off of carrying a higher payload against a lower take-off weight. Useful for shorter trips.
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JonLei
2) No
3) If it's portable O2 bottles that you are referring to then I think it's one each for all (max) 8 occupants.
4) Didn't know there was a reduction - if there is it will be in Fluid Replenishment Manual (ground handling).
2) No
3) If it's portable O2 bottles that you are referring to then I think it's one each for all (max) 8 occupants.
4) Didn't know there was a reduction - if there is it will be in Fluid Replenishment Manual (ground handling).
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[edited: sorry, I was mixing up things...] We have 195 minutes of oxygen for evry occupant to cover some very high terrain in China with decompression i.c.w. few available options to divert. A main deck fire would not make things easier.
With a fire on the main deck or the lower cargo holds, I am not sure if we would see smoke in the cockpit without recirculated air. With only an EICAS warning, there's i.m.h.o. not enough info to justify ditching as mentioned earlier until the soles of your shoes start melting.
On our combi's we obviously do have a main deck fire extinguishing system.
Cheers...
With a fire on the main deck or the lower cargo holds, I am not sure if we would see smoke in the cockpit without recirculated air. With only an EICAS warning, there's i.m.h.o. not enough info to justify ditching as mentioned earlier until the soles of your shoes start melting.
On our combi's we obviously do have a main deck fire extinguishing system.
Cheers...
Last edited by LLuke; 3rd Aug 2007 at 09:51.
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Interesting thread chaps.
Not sure if this is relevant to B744F ops but my previous airline (B763) had some literature which stated that from the moment an in flight cabin fire was declared to be out of control, structural break up could be expected after as little as 12 minutes. Now, if you are at 36,000 feet when the fire starts raging it just about leaves you enough time for a max rate descent and a ditching/crash landing.
Scary!
Not sure if this is relevant to B744F ops but my previous airline (B763) had some literature which stated that from the moment an in flight cabin fire was declared to be out of control, structural break up could be expected after as little as 12 minutes. Now, if you are at 36,000 feet when the fire starts raging it just about leaves you enough time for a max rate descent and a ditching/crash landing.
Scary!
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I dont think there is a right or wrong answer to this debate ....
The way I would deal with a main deck fire EICAS would be very different depending how far away I was from a usable runway.
A friend recently said to me that compared to PAX 74's we are at an advantage ... upon asking - why? He said everything on a 744F is checked for dangerous goods HAZMAT etc and packaged accordingly. In the hold of a PAX a/c all sorts could be in those suitcases ...
Also on a the main deck of a 744F their is very little wiring (ie. IFE) to spark off a fire ....
The weak link in cargo is the load controllers and shipping agents, trusting the packaging and loading UN instructions have been adhered to.
The way I would deal with a main deck fire EICAS would be very different depending how far away I was from a usable runway.
A friend recently said to me that compared to PAX 74's we are at an advantage ... upon asking - why? He said everything on a 744F is checked for dangerous goods HAZMAT etc and packaged accordingly. In the hold of a PAX a/c all sorts could be in those suitcases ...
Also on a the main deck of a 744F their is very little wiring (ie. IFE) to spark off a fire ....
The weak link in cargo is the load controllers and shipping agents, trusting the packaging and loading UN instructions have been adhered to.
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The "weak link" is anyone but the loadmaster/controller.
Any guesses to the reasons why?
Any guesses to the reasons why?
(The packaging shippers etc? The sender not correctly identifying the contents?).
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NOBLUES
welcome to the world of the "Freight-Dog" - you gotta have faith!
Should you ever be unfortunate to have experience of a main deck fire warning and walk away from it, - be sure to let us know everything you did to survive.
welcome to the world of the "Freight-Dog" - you gotta have faith!
Should you ever be unfortunate to have experience of a main deck fire warning and walk away from it, - be sure to let us know everything you did to survive.
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744 Freighter Main Deck Fire Suppression
I remember 15yr ago doing a mod on the Air India combie classics to install 10 fire ext bottles in the lower lobe aft cargo r/h sidewall, this was for main deck fire ext.
