Dirty Flight Decks
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hemel Hempstead
Age: 44
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its all turning a bit sour eh chasing 767? The air of superiority appears to be with you, your the guy the rest of the airline are employed to serve right? A lesson I think you need.. and someone someday will give it to you. 10 hour flight 7 hours in the cruise... you know the answer to what could you be doing in between filling in the plog..
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it so difficult for some of You to put a sheet of material on the seat before you put your a.. on?
How about your flightplan?
Maybe the company should install showers on the aircraft, so we engineers can take a shower before we enter the cockpit?
I hate grease as much as you do, but if you expect someone 6'3" to stand in a 5 foot cockpit whilst we do our checks...
I spend considerable time cleaning the cockpit at the company's expense on relatively short turnarounds (your wings may be falling off, but your panels will be clean). They don't issue us with vacuum cleaners, but we use small brushes and flannels (from the toilets) to shift the skin flakes, biscuit crumbs, etc from the panels onto the floor, where the official cleaners with their vacuum cleaners follow up. I have great faith in the intelligence of our cleaners not to disturb switches/flight controls. I've met cleaners who were previously journalists, policewomen, nurses, etc.... Outstanding people who are not scared of a little dirt now and then (unlike some people here).
Don't tell me your company doesn't issue you with Dry Cleaning vouchers???
NSEU
How about your flightplan?
Maybe the company should install showers on the aircraft, so we engineers can take a shower before we enter the cockpit?
I hate grease as much as you do, but if you expect someone 6'3" to stand in a 5 foot cockpit whilst we do our checks...
I spend considerable time cleaning the cockpit at the company's expense on relatively short turnarounds (your wings may be falling off, but your panels will be clean). They don't issue us with vacuum cleaners, but we use small brushes and flannels (from the toilets) to shift the skin flakes, biscuit crumbs, etc from the panels onto the floor, where the official cleaners with their vacuum cleaners follow up. I have great faith in the intelligence of our cleaners not to disturb switches/flight controls. I've met cleaners who were previously journalists, policewomen, nurses, etc.... Outstanding people who are not scared of a little dirt now and then (unlike some people here).
Don't tell me your company doesn't issue you with Dry Cleaning vouchers???
NSEU
Last edited by NSEU; 9th Jun 2007 at 15:44.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: belgium
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My car repair also puts a blanket on the seat as soon as I enter the garage, but that's because the car is MY property. The airplanes I work on are property of the company, not of the pilots or engineers. So if the company doesn't foresee some blankets for me, I put my greasy a* on the seat without protection. You know now who to complain to if your seat is black once again. There were times I also carried an anti static wiper, and I stayed in the galley to do the paperwork instead of the capt seat, but I've had too many issues with pilots like these to care anymore.
Last weekend again, a pilot asked me to clean the front windshield. I told him to ask the cleaners who carry special products for this, but he said he would ground the plane if it wasn't done at the instant moment. I left the cockpit (5 other planes waiting), and he called operations to tell the plane was downgraded in autoland because of no sight through the windshield. I returned to his plane, removed the 2 bugs, I found a few scratches from the wiper that were out of limit, and said the captain I would ground the plane myself. OOh, everything was fine now for the captain and I was a good boy, but please let me fly today...
I always ask how they learned to fly. Everybody starts in a Cessna 152 type right? I fly these myself, don't you get the occasional grease on your hands when checking the oil? Don't you have to clean the bugs on the windscreen yourself?
Last weekend again, a pilot asked me to clean the front windshield. I told him to ask the cleaners who carry special products for this, but he said he would ground the plane if it wasn't done at the instant moment. I left the cockpit (5 other planes waiting), and he called operations to tell the plane was downgraded in autoland because of no sight through the windshield. I returned to his plane, removed the 2 bugs, I found a few scratches from the wiper that were out of limit, and said the captain I would ground the plane myself. OOh, everything was fine now for the captain and I was a good boy, but please let me fly today...
I always ask how they learned to fly. Everybody starts in a Cessna 152 type right? I fly these myself, don't you get the occasional grease on your hands when checking the oil? Don't you have to clean the bugs on the windscreen yourself?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: N33 24.7 E36 30.8 E 36 30.8
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
quote:Its all turning a bit sour
the way i see it..pilots and engineers are two highly professional groups and it should be beneath members of both groups to argue in this manner.
in my company..we do whatever is needed to dispatch the aircraft safely and on time without too much fuss
the way i see it..pilots and engineers are two highly professional groups and it should be beneath members of both groups to argue in this manner.
in my company..we do whatever is needed to dispatch the aircraft safely and on time without too much fuss
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: at the edge of the alps
Posts: 449
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a type I previously flew the normal interval for flight deck cleaning by maintenance was 40 flight hours. One could argue that that would be roughly equal to an office being cleaned weekly whereas real offices are usually cleaned daily.....
On short-haul it is often not an option to have a cleaner vacuum the flight deck under supervision of the crew if on is to hop off as quickly as possible to jump onto another A/C.
"Self-Cleaning" has its downsides, too. We recently got an internal incident report where an overzealous pilot cleaner released the oxy masks during cruise while cleaning the overhead panel and an overzealous dead-headed crewmember shouted to pax to pull them over so loud that the pilots' PA to ignore them didn't register with the pax....
On short-haul it is often not an option to have a cleaner vacuum the flight deck under supervision of the crew if on is to hop off as quickly as possible to jump onto another A/C.
"Self-Cleaning" has its downsides, too. We recently got an internal incident report where an overzealous pilot cleaner released the oxy masks during cruise while cleaning the overhead panel and an overzealous dead-headed crewmember shouted to pax to pull them over so loud that the pilots' PA to ignore them didn't register with the pax....
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why can't the F/O be issued with a dust pan and brush to have a clean out on the fd, I read the F/O is not allowed to taxi the a/c ( most SOPS) while the skipper is doing the docking I'm sure the F/O could have a little tidy up.
Just a thought
Just a thought
Last edited by DaveO'Leary; 9th Jun 2007 at 23:42.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
like Asians do ;)
We shall start to wear white silky gloves when flying, as a lot of our Asian colleagues do in respect of the other crews on your flt deck... 
all about mentality.... some think it's their God-given right to instruct others just because their stripes are gooooolden
all about mentality.... some think it's their God-given right to instruct others just because their stripes are gooooolden
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Harbour
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what goes around comes back around?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=189725&highlight=filthy+flight+decks
It's been done before!
It's been done before!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
again with respect to all engineers.
wasn't my intension to insult any of You nor the job You do hard and well.
it was a little bit sour but...
all I wanted to share with U writing the post was that I'm trying to find an answer who is to make it if you are too busy and first and foremost too qualified to waste your time doing this kind of thing, we are not even willing to do it but also NOT equipped to try ( even when you really think we should spend 7 of 10 hrs of boredom to make it) and the cleaning team is not allowed to use the vacumm cleaner to clean the panels.
cause the plane returns to service after the so -called cleaning and I see no difference. I still have my shoulders dirty cause the belts are not cleaned and I am sitting in the mess .
so it is all down to us. Neither of You nor I can be responsible for the whole industry but I do know chaps who sit on the seat in greasy jackets ( even if You AFSKAP have whiter shirt than mine...) and it is only my problem then when I have to present myself in front of , say, passenger . not a problem to You. okay,perhaps I am a little bit weird.
NSEU : it is not about the faith in the inteligence of the cleaning staff - I wrote they are simply not ALLOWED to do it in the fligth decks.
the reality is we can write a lot about it and no one is really responsible and you will always find pros and cons but... the decks are becaming more and more dirty.
I apologise folks if YOU found yourself insulted.
ch767
wasn't my intension to insult any of You nor the job You do hard and well.
it was a little bit sour but...
all I wanted to share with U writing the post was that I'm trying to find an answer who is to make it if you are too busy and first and foremost too qualified to waste your time doing this kind of thing, we are not even willing to do it but also NOT equipped to try ( even when you really think we should spend 7 of 10 hrs of boredom to make it) and the cleaning team is not allowed to use the vacumm cleaner to clean the panels.
cause the plane returns to service after the so -called cleaning and I see no difference. I still have my shoulders dirty cause the belts are not cleaned and I am sitting in the mess .
so it is all down to us. Neither of You nor I can be responsible for the whole industry but I do know chaps who sit on the seat in greasy jackets ( even if You AFSKAP have whiter shirt than mine...) and it is only my problem then when I have to present myself in front of , say, passenger . not a problem to You. okay,perhaps I am a little bit weird.
NSEU : it is not about the faith in the inteligence of the cleaning staff - I wrote they are simply not ALLOWED to do it in the fligth decks.
the reality is we can write a lot about it and no one is really responsible and you will always find pros and cons but... the decks are becaming more and more dirty.
I apologise folks if YOU found yourself insulted.
ch767
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You seem to be painting a grim picture here, Chasing, but perhaps the policies in your airline have led to dirtier-than-average cockpits? 
(you don't work for BA, do you?) 
I have to agree, however, there seems to be a general trend toward dirtier cockpits. There are probably quite a few reasons for this.... Less manpower allocated to cleaning, faster turnarounds, budget airlines lowering the standards... or it may even be overzealous safety officials not allowing cleaners into the cockpit even to clean the floors. The jack-of-all-trades engineering policy is not helping things either. As an Avionics Engineer, there was a time when my jacket was rarely dirty, but now I am expected to change engine oil, inspect greasy undercarriage, etc. (However, my jacket may not be as bad as it looks. The grease stains are probably a few years old...the ones which have defied dry cleaning. The probability of the stains being transferred to the furniture is probably quite low
). BTW, if our cleaners are working on our cockpits and I am sitting in the front seats, I will assist by cleaning under the chair and in the footwells with their vacuum cleaners 
Re dirty seatbelts. Unfortunately, this is a specialized area. If you put it in the tech log, it may take a while for the problem to be rectified. We can't use any old cleaning product and the stains are probably not of the easily removable kind. Lots of effort will have to be expended to replace the belts (It's not a job you want to attempt on a quick turnaround).
Another thought.... Maybe management(s) are deciding that now that the flying public is not allowed on the flight deck (as jumpseaters), there is not the necessity to keep up such high standards?
Unfortunately, once the rot has set in... things will probably get worse. It's like walls being graffiti-ed (sp?). The faster you clean up the wall, the less likely it is to be re-graffiti-ed.... and if one is presented with a dirty cockpit, one is probably less likely to make an effort to keep it clean.
Perhaps we (engineers) did take offence where none was intended, but, if you're offering an apology, I won't say no
Anyway, I wish you luck with your quest, but judging by the forum response, I think you'll have to take your ideas to management (presenting yourself in large numbers) and let their policies filter downwards.... rather than risking the ire of individual engineers
Perhaps health/safety are the key issues here... rather than "appearance"?
Best regards.
NSEU.
(you don't work for BA, do you?) I have to agree, however, there seems to be a general trend toward dirtier cockpits. There are probably quite a few reasons for this.... Less manpower allocated to cleaning, faster turnarounds, budget airlines lowering the standards... or it may even be overzealous safety officials not allowing cleaners into the cockpit even to clean the floors. The jack-of-all-trades engineering policy is not helping things either. As an Avionics Engineer, there was a time when my jacket was rarely dirty, but now I am expected to change engine oil, inspect greasy undercarriage, etc. (However, my jacket may not be as bad as it looks. The grease stains are probably a few years old...the ones which have defied dry cleaning. The probability of the stains being transferred to the furniture is probably quite low
). BTW, if our cleaners are working on our cockpits and I am sitting in the front seats, I will assist by cleaning under the chair and in the footwells with their vacuum cleaners Re dirty seatbelts. Unfortunately, this is a specialized area. If you put it in the tech log, it may take a while for the problem to be rectified. We can't use any old cleaning product and the stains are probably not of the easily removable kind. Lots of effort will have to be expended to replace the belts (It's not a job you want to attempt on a quick turnaround).
Another thought.... Maybe management(s) are deciding that now that the flying public is not allowed on the flight deck (as jumpseaters), there is not the necessity to keep up such high standards?
Unfortunately, once the rot has set in... things will probably get worse. It's like walls being graffiti-ed (sp?). The faster you clean up the wall, the less likely it is to be re-graffiti-ed.... and if one is presented with a dirty cockpit, one is probably less likely to make an effort to keep it clean.
Perhaps we (engineers) did take offence where none was intended, but, if you're offering an apology, I won't say no
Anyway, I wish you luck with your quest, but judging by the forum response, I think you'll have to take your ideas to management (presenting yourself in large numbers) and let their policies filter downwards.... rather than risking the ire of individual engineers
Perhaps health/safety are the key issues here... rather than "appearance"?Best regards.
NSEU.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NSEU ,
this is exactly what I have been doing for some time but do believe me it is not working as it does not remove the dirt - dust only. Have you ever seen a cleaning team that was afraid to enter the deck and use the vacuum machine when politely asked to so with me on the chair? I have. It was weird . They later explained they are still being told not to use the machine in the deck.
I am also aware of this and realize that it is not to take 25 min or so which makes me reluctant to put an entry in the log - maiking it a part of the game
well, I wrote this in my first letter - probably the words were not accurate and shifted the subject into the unwanted direction. We ( pilots) spent lots of hours up there having no chance to get rid of the trouble even if I spend 9 of 10 hrs of the flight polishing the panels with cleaning towels.
anyway thank You for a good word and understanding
best regards
ch767
if our cleaners are working on our cockpits and I am sitting in the front seats, I will assist by cleaning under the chair and in the footwells with their vacuum cleaners
dirty seatbelts. Unfortunately, this is a specialized area. If you put it in the tech log, it may take a while for the problem to be rectified.
Perhaps health/safety are the key issues here... rather than "appearance"?
anyway thank You for a good word and understanding
best regards
ch767
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Mumbai, INDIA
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A Daily cleaning of the Flight Deck in detail does help in eliminating Dirt Accumulation.The difference is very Noticable.Although We operate Freighters it pays to view a clean Cockpit & clean Airframe.
regds
MEL
regds
MEL
