Engine failure in turn 30° of bank
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Denmark
Engine failure in turn 30° of bank
Guys,
can anybody explain the recovery of an engine failure in a left turn with 30° of bank, with flaps 5 and speed 180kt and the left engine fails. Is it a tough manoever?
Thanks
OD
can anybody explain the recovery of an engine failure in a left turn with 30° of bank, with flaps 5 and speed 180kt and the left engine fails. Is it a tough manoever?
Thanks
OD
ECON cruise, LR cruise...
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 569
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From: MIRSI hold - give or take...
First - no, not a hard manouvre by any means.
Second - two factors - controllability and performance.
You're in a left turn - the left engine fails. So initially, you will have a tendency to overbank and for the nose to drop & consequently speed to increase.
Ergo, first solve the controllability issue. Chances are that you'll already be correcting the overbank tendency with right aileron when you realise that you have a failure, so follow through on that and add the right rudder smoothly. If you need to sacrifice a bit of altitude to maintain control, so be it. You should be able to get away with either a level manouvre and a 5-10 kt. speed-drop or an altitude loss of 150-200 ft.
Only when you've got a positive roll rate to the right going can you consider adding power to the right engine - remember that you won't need TO/GA or even MCT, the aircraft will fly level @ F5 & 180 KIAS with around 70% N1, so initially don't add more thrust than you need to. Then, as the aircraft approaches level, you add whatever thrust is needed to reclaim the speed or the altitude sacrificed.
Best of luck!
Second - two factors - controllability and performance.
You're in a left turn - the left engine fails. So initially, you will have a tendency to overbank and for the nose to drop & consequently speed to increase.
Ergo, first solve the controllability issue. Chances are that you'll already be correcting the overbank tendency with right aileron when you realise that you have a failure, so follow through on that and add the right rudder smoothly. If you need to sacrifice a bit of altitude to maintain control, so be it. You should be able to get away with either a level manouvre and a 5-10 kt. speed-drop or an altitude loss of 150-200 ft.
Only when you've got a positive roll rate to the right going can you consider adding power to the right engine - remember that you won't need TO/GA or even MCT, the aircraft will fly level @ F5 & 180 KIAS with around 70% N1, so initially don't add more thrust than you need to. Then, as the aircraft approaches level, you add whatever thrust is needed to reclaim the speed or the altitude sacrificed.
Best of luck!
ECON cruise, LR cruise...
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 569
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From: MIRSI hold - give or take...
Alex,
We both know that if the failure occurs after V1, the engine-out flight-path is theoretically invalid. However, since your performance will now be somewhat above and beyond what the V1-cut required, there is nothing wrong with following your ETP, albeit with a little more than the 35 or 50 ft. obstacle clearance
The tricky part comes when the engine cuts after your SID has deviated significantly from the ETP, but you're still below MSA. And in that case, yes, you have to stick it out with the SID, unless your local knowledge makes re-joining the ETP a rather attractive option
OD - forgot to ask - are we talking departure or arrival? Or just airwork in general?
We both know that if the failure occurs after V1, the engine-out flight-path is theoretically invalid. However, since your performance will now be somewhat above and beyond what the V1-cut required, there is nothing wrong with following your ETP, albeit with a little more than the 35 or 50 ft. obstacle clearance
The tricky part comes when the engine cuts after your SID has deviated significantly from the ETP, but you're still below MSA. And in that case, yes, you have to stick it out with the SID, unless your local knowledge makes re-joining the ETP a rather attractive option
OD - forgot to ask - are we talking departure or arrival? Or just airwork in general?
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 367
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From: UK
Easy
on our Airbus fleet, below 1500' AGL, roll wings level, pull heading and announce SID change to a "chiefpilots name" 1A to your mate
More thrust, if you want it, , trim it out, bit of rudder, autopilot whatever you want. Calling Mayday on the radio wakes up ATC and the sky is yours, enjoy.
on our Airbus fleet, below 1500' AGL, roll wings level, pull heading and announce SID change to a "chiefpilots name" 1A to your mate
More thrust, if you want it, , trim it out, bit of rudder, autopilot whatever you want. Calling Mayday on the radio wakes up ATC and the sky is yours, enjoy.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,486
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From: The No Transgression Zone
the most important factor in any spiral manuever is to first recover laterally, above all, otherwise you'll pull a tighter spiral, and may easilyt get the plane in a position where control is lost. although this was mentioned, it never hurts to mention it again and emphasize that point
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 5,106
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From: east ESSEX
J,as your profile does not indicate you are an aviator, I`ll keep it simple , hopefully..!In normal flight the aircraft flies in a balanced condition..ie Lift=Weight; Thrust=Drag, at constant speed; also, assuming the aircraft is trimmed correctly, it will be stable about the 3 axes,longitudinal,lateral, and directional.
Assuming, in this case,following an engine failure in a turn,if no recvery action is taken, the a/c will yaw, and roll further into the turn; if the nose goes down the speed will increase,drag from the failed engine will increase, further increasing the yaw and roll. The aircraft will now increase it`s roll/yaw,but if the a/c was trimmed initially at 180, and speed increases to ,say 220, the rate of turn will increase as the a/c tries to return to it`s initial trimmed speed, but it will have increased it`s "g" loading towards the centre of turn. If the situation is allowed to continue, the speed increase and loading could inhibit further control and lead to overstress/break-up , if one tried to pull the a/c out,as it would also be `asymmetric`,or `rolling` `g`.
So, it is a `must` that in this situation one must `level` the wings first, reduce power to assist, if necessary, and then sort out the failure....
The procedure is essentially the same whether it is a Seneca or a 747. Don`t let the aeroplane get away from you, and if you are going to crash, then crash under control..........!
Assuming, in this case,following an engine failure in a turn,if no recvery action is taken, the a/c will yaw, and roll further into the turn; if the nose goes down the speed will increase,drag from the failed engine will increase, further increasing the yaw and roll. The aircraft will now increase it`s roll/yaw,but if the a/c was trimmed initially at 180, and speed increases to ,say 220, the rate of turn will increase as the a/c tries to return to it`s initial trimmed speed, but it will have increased it`s "g" loading towards the centre of turn. If the situation is allowed to continue, the speed increase and loading could inhibit further control and lead to overstress/break-up , if one tried to pull the a/c out,as it would also be `asymmetric`,or `rolling` `g`.
So, it is a `must` that in this situation one must `level` the wings first, reduce power to assist, if necessary, and then sort out the failure....
The procedure is essentially the same whether it is a Seneca or a 747. Don`t let the aeroplane get away from you, and if you are going to crash, then crash under control..........!
