MD90.. why it didnt succeded?
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 3
From: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Define performance.
Good rate of climb, good runway performance, fast in cruise. What?
What as pilots we consider good, might not be what the airline accountants want in an aircraft.
BA right now are looking at longhaul fleet renewal/expansion. What role do you think the Chief Pilot will have in the decision? I suggest he will be asked how many pilots he will need for various options and that is it. The bean counters will then plug in that small variable into their spreadsheet and decide.
So the MD90 didn't fit in with Boeings plans, nor the airlines.
Good rate of climb, good runway performance, fast in cruise. What?
What as pilots we consider good, might not be what the airline accountants want in an aircraft.
BA right now are looking at longhaul fleet renewal/expansion. What role do you think the Chief Pilot will have in the decision? I suggest he will be asked how many pilots he will need for various options and that is it. The bean counters will then plug in that small variable into their spreadsheet and decide.
So the MD90 didn't fit in with Boeings plans, nor the airlines.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
From: on the Blue Planet
Outdated technology...
Outdated FDK (even for the full EFIS version)...
Wings too small (and still those lame ailerons)...
Small cargo hold volume...
Noisy rear cabin...
Clear ice formation danger...
MDC vs Boeing...
Outdated FDK (even for the full EFIS version)...
Wings too small (and still those lame ailerons)...
Small cargo hold volume...
Noisy rear cabin...
Clear ice formation danger...
MDC vs Boeing...
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,598
Likes: 11
From: Down south, USA.
No US-produced civilian airline aircraft (after the B-707 'dash-80') has received direct US government money for research, development, marketing etc.
This certainly makes it quite difficult to compete with foreign state-subsidized aircraft.
No names mentioned here.
This certainly makes it quite difficult to compete with foreign state-subsidized aircraft.
No names mentioned here.
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 5,552
Likes: 25
From: ME
received direct US government money for research, development, marketing
Guess what? We ended up with the MD90 due to US Gov pressure, the aircraft selection was actually announced by President Clinton rather than the airline. Now we find ourselves with a heap of junk that we cant even give away!!
Mutt
Last edited by mutt; 21st April 2007 at 14:47.
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 8,208
Likes: 352
From: London UK
Lack of success due to McDD running out of money and starving the project of R&D funds (notably on the aerodynamics side). So it was a pile of poo done on the cheap.
Same thing afflicted the other McDD aircraft of the 1990s, the MD-11, which you will notice has similarly vanished from mainstream passenger operators.
The MD-90 was the ultimate overstretch of the DC-9 with lots of elements (starting with a 5-across fuselage) unchanged from 30 years beforehand, while others advanced.
Final straw was the arrival of Harry Stonecipher at McDD as president, who killed the future of the company with poor management tactics all round. The only significant sale made after his arrival was to Saudia, which was done at government level.
Some MD-90s have been scrapped with less than 10 years service.
Boeing sensibly didn't continue it. It's lack of market appeal was apparent on the day of the merger.
Same thing afflicted the other McDD aircraft of the 1990s, the MD-11, which you will notice has similarly vanished from mainstream passenger operators.
The MD-90 was the ultimate overstretch of the DC-9 with lots of elements (starting with a 5-across fuselage) unchanged from 30 years beforehand, while others advanced.
Final straw was the arrival of Harry Stonecipher at McDD as president, who killed the future of the company with poor management tactics all round. The only significant sale made after his arrival was to Saudia, which was done at government level.
Some MD-90s have been scrapped with less than 10 years service.
Boeing sensibly didn't continue it. It's lack of market appeal was apparent on the day of the merger.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 457
Likes: 16
From: australasia
The MD-90 was the ultimate overstretch of the DC-9
I'd suggest the demise is more to do with the similarity to the 737 figures. I don't think Boeing wanted it, but it was too far down the road to kill it outright.
Maui
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 3
From: UK
Erm. A little less of a stretch than the very sucessful MD82/83
The MD-90 was the ultimate overstretch of the DC-9 with lots of elements (starting with a 5-across fuselage) unchanged from 30 years beforehand, while others advanced.
Not sure why 5 across seating counts as a disadvantage. Only one middle seat per row is really a plus for the pax. It would be a big improvement for the BAe 146.
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
From: UK
No US-produced civilian airline aircraft (after the B-707 'dash-80') has received direct US government money for research, development, marketing etc.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 896
Likes: 2
From: SoCalif
"No US-produced civilian airline aircraft (after the B-707 'dash-80') has received direct US government money for research, development, marketing etc."
"Of course Douglas did benefit from technology transfer, research and manufacturing techniques from the rather large grey military freighter plant over the road!"
Now that's a crock. The DC-9() and DC-10() production facilities were old by the time the C-17 started. And for the most part, they weren't upgraded after that. The technology transfer was the other way around. Lots of commercial engineering people transferred to the C-17, as the other programs spooled down.
Since its beginning in about 1983, the most reliable plane in the USAF fleet has been the KC-10A tanker. It was a DC10-30 with tanks in the belly and a boom. That's another case of American commercial technology transfer to the govt.
GB
"Of course Douglas did benefit from technology transfer, research and manufacturing techniques from the rather large grey military freighter plant over the road!"
Now that's a crock. The DC-9() and DC-10() production facilities were old by the time the C-17 started. And for the most part, they weren't upgraded after that. The technology transfer was the other way around. Lots of commercial engineering people transferred to the C-17, as the other programs spooled down.
Since its beginning in about 1983, the most reliable plane in the USAF fleet has been the KC-10A tanker. It was a DC10-30 with tanks in the belly and a boom. That's another case of American commercial technology transfer to the govt.
GB
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,833
Likes: 2
From: Sale, Australia
maui, on the right path. Boeing 717 was originally the MD-95
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_717
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_717
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 896
Likes: 2
From: SoCalif
McDouglas seemed to have a talent for picking oddball engines for the later DC-9 series. The JT8D-209,17,19 is unique to the MD-80, so its costs are much, much higher today than the JT8D-7,9,15,17 that was on the DC-9. The BR-715 on the MD-95/717 was new territory, too.
McD also chose a single supplier for all avionics, APU and electrical for the MD-90/95. The cost of maintenance on those items is at the mercy of Honeywell, nee Allied Signal, nee Bendix. McD built the planes and the single source suppliers have made the profit.
The smartest thing done on the A-320 was to provide a choice of engines. Competition has been so hot that GE & Rolls were giving away the engines on airlines' initial orders. Negotiate to buy a 737 and you're at the mercy of GE.
GB
McD also chose a single supplier for all avionics, APU and electrical for the MD-90/95. The cost of maintenance on those items is at the mercy of Honeywell, nee Allied Signal, nee Bendix. McD built the planes and the single source suppliers have made the profit.
The smartest thing done on the A-320 was to provide a choice of engines. Competition has been so hot that GE & Rolls were giving away the engines on airlines' initial orders. Negotiate to buy a 737 and you're at the mercy of GE.
GB
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 3
From: UK
McDouglas seemed to have a talent for picking oddball engines for the later DC-9 series. The JT8D-209,17,19 is unique to the MD-80, so its costs are much, much higher today than the JT8D-7,9,15,17 that was on the DC-9. The BR-715 on the MD-95/717 was new territory, too.
McD-D sold over 1,000 MD-80s and MD-87s, so there have got to be plenty of JT8D-200 engines in circulation, not as many as the original JT8D, but hardly uneconomic quantities for spares, etc.
