737 interesting go around, tech question
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Switzerland
737 interesting go around, tech question
Been following Pprune forums for some time but this is my first post...
Interesting go around on Olympic airlines two days ago from Athens to Corfu. Leaving Athens, the weather was crap with big storms rolling through and gust of 30kts plus. The take off and climb were pretty exciting but the approach into Corfu seemed un eventful. I fly into Corfu pretty often for my airline so I know the area well... The last part of the approach we seemed pretty low over the water from my positon just behind the wing on the right side. The weather was good for the approach but the runway was pretty wet as it had been raining all day.... so... looking out my window I saw familiar landmarks going rapidly past the wings telling me that the wheels should be touching down any second. Nope... I saw the 1000 ft marker go racing past and At that point I got a little nervous and figured a go around at any moment... After about 5- 10 more seconds I felt the wheels finally touch down and thought there is no way in hell we are going to be able to stop in time...
The touchdown was a bounce and as we soared back into the air I was a bit relieved thinking, ok, they realized their screw up, finally, and i should hear the engines spool up now... Nope... I could see and hear the flaps moving into a take off configuration and could tell the nose was rising... Definately going around. Where is the spool up? I swear it was about 10 seconds and the plane was starting to sink and then finally... Whoosh... Power. Thank god... Scary for sure...
There was no announcement from the flight crew until about 10 minutes later on a long approach when the captain came on and said. Nothing to worry about, we were a bit above our intended flight path so we had to abort, we will be on the ground in a couple of minutes, thanks for flying Olympic Airways...
The next landing was un eventfull really... A little long, but a soft touchdown with heavy reverse... BTW it was OA flight 606, Thursday night in a 737-400. I dont have a 737 type rating so I dont know the go around procedure/ sequence. If some one could enlighten me I would appreciate it... To me it seamed the approach was low and too fast, with a much delayed go around call... They should never have touched down that far down the runway... Going to be some explaining to do I'm sure...
Interesting go around on Olympic airlines two days ago from Athens to Corfu. Leaving Athens, the weather was crap with big storms rolling through and gust of 30kts plus. The take off and climb were pretty exciting but the approach into Corfu seemed un eventful. I fly into Corfu pretty often for my airline so I know the area well... The last part of the approach we seemed pretty low over the water from my positon just behind the wing on the right side. The weather was good for the approach but the runway was pretty wet as it had been raining all day.... so... looking out my window I saw familiar landmarks going rapidly past the wings telling me that the wheels should be touching down any second. Nope... I saw the 1000 ft marker go racing past and At that point I got a little nervous and figured a go around at any moment... After about 5- 10 more seconds I felt the wheels finally touch down and thought there is no way in hell we are going to be able to stop in time...
The touchdown was a bounce and as we soared back into the air I was a bit relieved thinking, ok, they realized their screw up, finally, and i should hear the engines spool up now... Nope... I could see and hear the flaps moving into a take off configuration and could tell the nose was rising... Definately going around. Where is the spool up? I swear it was about 10 seconds and the plane was starting to sink and then finally... Whoosh... Power. Thank god... Scary for sure...
There was no announcement from the flight crew until about 10 minutes later on a long approach when the captain came on and said. Nothing to worry about, we were a bit above our intended flight path so we had to abort, we will be on the ground in a couple of minutes, thanks for flying Olympic Airways...
The next landing was un eventfull really... A little long, but a soft touchdown with heavy reverse... BTW it was OA flight 606, Thursday night in a 737-400. I dont have a 737 type rating so I dont know the go around procedure/ sequence. If some one could enlighten me I would appreciate it... To me it seamed the approach was low and too fast, with a much delayed go around call... They should never have touched down that far down the runway... Going to be some explaining to do I'm sure...
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: ???
It's quite amazing how goochflies can correctly judge the height speed and flight path of the aircraft all from the pax cabin. could you teach us pilots to do that i mean it would come in handy if we lose the flight instruments.
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: My views - Not my employer!
It does take a long time to spool the engines up from Flight idle to G/A power.
When you are sitting there waiting for it to happen, it feels like a LONG time...
Worry not, the drivers would have taken the correct actions many seconds before you felt them.
When you are sitting there waiting for it to happen, it feels like a LONG time...
Worry not, the drivers would have taken the correct actions many seconds before you felt them.
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Europe-the sunshine side
It is not uncommon to touchdown,in case go-around is initiated at lower than 50',and spooling up of the engines can take from 5 to maybe 10 sec ,especially if the thrust levers were retarded to idle (trying to land ) before applying go-around thrust.
This is one of the reasons that you should have a minimum thrust for a stabilized approach.
Consider also that under stress time seems to expand-5 sec will feel like 10,for sure.
Probably it was ,as the cpt said, a bit high on approach, and also high on the speed resulting in minimum thrust before go-around. Nothing to worry,it is well within the flight safety envelope if done by the SOP.Which is:go-around.
This is one of the reasons that you should have a minimum thrust for a stabilized approach.
Consider also that under stress time seems to expand-5 sec will feel like 10,for sure.
Probably it was ,as the cpt said, a bit high on approach, and also high on the speed resulting in minimum thrust before go-around. Nothing to worry,it is well within the flight safety envelope if done by the SOP.Which is:go-around.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Switzerland
Thanks guys, I kind of figured that much... I guess I was just surprised at how far they took it before making the decision... It was dark and wet and I dont think they have approach slope lighting on the north runway... Either way, the crew did a fine job... Nothing broken... Being within the SOP's is another question but not mine or mine to judge...
cheers,
Gooch
Hey insomniac, bet you did real good at 737 school... Top of the class I'll betcha.... Try looking outside sometimes... They didnt install all those windows just for taxiing.... Glad your amazed by my ability to judge hight, speed and distance but i feel a bit sorry for your captains... Practice grass hopper, practice...
cheers,
Gooch
Hey insomniac, bet you did real good at 737 school... Top of the class I'll betcha.... Try looking outside sometimes... They didnt install all those windows just for taxiing.... Glad your amazed by my ability to judge hight, speed and distance but i feel a bit sorry for your captains... Practice grass hopper, practice...
Joined: Feb 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Correr es mi destino por no llevar papel
Hey insomniac, bet you did real good at 737 school... Top of the class I'll betcha.... Try looking outside sometimes... They didnt install all those windows just for taxiing.... Glad your amazed by my ability to judge hight, speed and distance but i feel a bit sorry for your captains... Practice grass hopper, practice...
I can give you more relevant comment when you give us the link to the incident report, provided that there was anything remotely resembling an incident on your flight.
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Sunshine Coast
Gouch. Fair reason to feel anxious, an unstable approach should be recognised well before the flare and certainly before touch down actually back at at least 500ft agl. Certainly any experienced pilot travelling as a passenger can make a fairly accurate judgement how stable an approach is if he is familiar with landmarks at a particular airport and is in a position to see the fixed distance markings disappear beneath the aircraft for many seconds before the first touch down prior to a bounce back into the air, normally caused from excess speed. Accurate speed and slope is vitally important on any jet and a go around must be the decision on any approach that is unstable below 500ft.
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Netherlands
If you're not stabilized by 500 feet, including speed, you have to make a go-around.
Now, if you press the TO/GA buttons then, no matter what, you'll never touch the runway.
Touching the runway during a go-around may happen if you initiate it at, say, 100 feet or lower. This might happen because the runway is blocked, or a windshear is encounted, or such alike. But these low-initiated go-arounds are flown from a stabilized flightpath, by definition.
Otherwise you did not have reason to be there in the first place.
Now, if you press the TO/GA buttons then, no matter what, you'll never touch the runway.
Touching the runway during a go-around may happen if you initiate it at, say, 100 feet or lower. This might happen because the runway is blocked, or a windshear is encounted, or such alike. But these low-initiated go-arounds are flown from a stabilized flightpath, by definition.
Otherwise you did not have reason to be there in the first place.
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: ???
fox niner: Thats all and good in theory however there is alot that can happen from your stabilised 500ft agl point (or 1000ft if in IMC) until you land. just because you were stabilized at 500ft doesn't mean you will be until you touchdown. that is why the missed approach climb gradient is measured from the departure end of the runway. I don't see what the big deal is. it's similar to a touch and go.
goochflies I'm sorry i hurt your feelings. please don't cry. I was just making the point that the we have instruments there for a reason. the view from up front is much different than from where you were sitting. I have travelled as a pax and felt the same thing.. ie on short final it looks like you are low. As pilots we are taught to trust our instruments and not our feelings. there are many illusions that the human body can suffer from.
one example of which might be: looking out my window I saw familiar landmarks going rapidly past the wings telling me that the wheels should be touching down any second. Nope... I saw the 1000 ft marker go racing past first of all you can't judge weather of not u were at 1000ft and second of all what 1000ft marker are you refering to?
goochflies I'm sorry i hurt your feelings. please don't cry. I was just making the point that the we have instruments there for a reason. the view from up front is much different than from where you were sitting. I have travelled as a pax and felt the same thing.. ie on short final it looks like you are low. As pilots we are taught to trust our instruments and not our feelings. there are many illusions that the human body can suffer from.
one example of which might be: looking out my window I saw familiar landmarks going rapidly past the wings telling me that the wheels should be touching down any second. Nope... I saw the 1000 ft marker go racing past first of all you can't judge weather of not u were at 1000ft and second of all what 1000ft marker are you refering to?
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Australia
In flight, the engines are at Flight Idle, i.e. partially spooled up and advance to full Go Around Thrust is very rapid.
As the post mentions that the aircraft had already touched down, the engines would be in Ground Idle, requiring a considerably longer time to spool up to Go Around thrust.
That may account for the apparent length of time before you perceived the engines to be set to Go Around thrust.
Regards,
Old Smokey
As the post mentions that the aircraft had already touched down, the engines would be in Ground Idle, requiring a considerably longer time to spool up to Go Around thrust.
That may account for the apparent length of time before you perceived the engines to be set to Go Around thrust.
Regards,
Old Smokey
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 279
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From: ???
Hi old smokey,
I doubt that could be a contributing factor unless the aircraft stayed on the ground for more than 4 seconds. on the 737 it takes 4 seconds after ground mode to transition from flight to ground idle. The reason for this is for quicker response time in case of a G/A
I doubt that could be a contributing factor unless the aircraft stayed on the ground for more than 4 seconds. on the 737 it takes 4 seconds after ground mode to transition from flight to ground idle. The reason for this is for quicker response time in case of a G/A
