eng failure on take off....
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: italy
eng failure on take off....
just after take off you have a ang failure. You decide to re-join the escape procedure but you are now above the effra ( enf failure flap retraction alt)...what do you do? you'll levell off on the escape abv the effra to retract the flaps or you'll continue to climb until the msa and than retract them?
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From: Over the Moon
If you rejoin the special engine out procedure then follow the profile. This means cleaning up once out of the first turn, above acceleration altitude with recall items complete. You continue to follow the procedure until above MSA or you are happy to accept ATC vectors under radar control or you can achieve visual seperation from the terrain. When you have a chance and its safe to do so advise ATC of your special engine out procedure as they won't be familiar with it and they differ operator to operator depending on who drew it up.
Hope that helps
Hope that helps
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: On the dark side of the moon
If you are above the minimum flap retraction altitude before the engine fails, then it's highly likely that you are far above the minimum climb gradient, which was predicated on climb performance following an engine out at V1. There is no harm in levelling off immediately and retracting the flaps, so long as you are following the engine out path until reaching MSA or the minimum radar vectoring altitude.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: italy
re...
I mean...if you loose all elec pwr plus one eng @ take off ( in the simulator I hope...) it's not advisable to retract flap ( no flap asYmmetry protection..). During the climb you get the APU gen on line but now you are above the effra......Will you levell of at this point to retract the flaps?
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Citizen of the World
If you have any sense you'll follow your company's EO procedures and if they leave you in limbo after an emergency turn, you'll climb to the local MSA as fast as possible and then decide where to go - usually your departure airfield unless it's not suitable for a single-engine landing on the day. Then you'll head for the nearest boozer and get rat-arsed.
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Middle Earth
Do whatever possible..
1 eng failure and total elec failure...? Ain't that a b**ch.. 
Anyhow.. as long as you're above the acceleration alt or flaps retraction alt (which ever name you want to use) you can decide either way you want.
1. Lvl off & clean those flaps if it really bother your performance..or..
2. Just keep on climbing til msa then do your stuff.
As long as you're not below that acc alt, you're pretty much safe.
All that if you're imc.. if visual I would rather do a 180 and land that darn machine as soon as possible ......
Anyhow.. as long as you're above the acceleration alt or flaps retraction alt (which ever name you want to use) you can decide either way you want.
1. Lvl off & clean those flaps if it really bother your performance..or..
2. Just keep on climbing til msa then do your stuff.
As long as you're not below that acc alt, you're pretty much safe.
All that if you're imc.. if visual I would rather do a 180 and land that darn machine as soon as possible ......
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: USA
Escape proceedure? What are you talking about? You're not describing a windshear encounter. It's just an engine-out. Experience an engine failure...fly the engine-out profile. Not rocket science.
Effra? Come on.
Minimum flap retraction altitudes are just that...minimum altitude. Nothing prevents you from retracting them at a later time. If you can't retract them, then you needn't worry any more about it. Don't worry about what you can't control.
All you need to do is fly the profile. Do everything exactly as you would any other time. Make the situation as routine as possible. Notify ATC when you have the situation in hand, request what assistance you need, and if appropriate, return for landing.
You'll already be familiar with your minimums, departure proceedure, etc, as you'll have discussed and briefed it before entering the runway for departure. What you're describing is nothing more than an engine failure after takeoff. As far as "effra," it's a point at which you execute one part of the clean up proceedure. If you need to level to accelerate, then fine, if you don't, then you have no valid reason for stopping the climb unless you're already reached your assigned altitude, or you're attempting to stay visual for a return to land. (a wise idea if you've experienced both an engine failure and a complete electrical loss, as you've described).
Effra? Come on.
Minimum flap retraction altitudes are just that...minimum altitude. Nothing prevents you from retracting them at a later time. If you can't retract them, then you needn't worry any more about it. Don't worry about what you can't control.
All you need to do is fly the profile. Do everything exactly as you would any other time. Make the situation as routine as possible. Notify ATC when you have the situation in hand, request what assistance you need, and if appropriate, return for landing.
You'll already be familiar with your minimums, departure proceedure, etc, as you'll have discussed and briefed it before entering the runway for departure. What you're describing is nothing more than an engine failure after takeoff. As far as "effra," it's a point at which you execute one part of the clean up proceedure. If you need to level to accelerate, then fine, if you don't, then you have no valid reason for stopping the climb unless you're already reached your assigned altitude, or you're attempting to stay visual for a return to land. (a wise idea if you've experienced both an engine failure and a complete electrical loss, as you've described).
Fleet Manager
Joined: Apr 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: various places .....
Couple of concerns ..
(a) As long as you're not below that acc alt, you're pretty much safe.
Point is that you can't relax until you are above the critical obstacle(s). Even then, you must be sure that your relaxation isn't going to bring additional obstacles into critical play. ie fly the profile as published.
(b) Minimum flap retraction altitudes are just that...minimum altitude. Nothing prevents you from retracting them at a later time.
The only minimum, as such, is the 400 ft requirement. Otherwise, the escape is predicated on the sums. Unless you know that you are above all relevant obstacles (which should be addressed by some explicit means in the procedure) extending the second segment might compromise you a little as the gradients (and, hence, third segment distance) are affected.
(a) As long as you're not below that acc alt, you're pretty much safe.
Point is that you can't relax until you are above the critical obstacle(s). Even then, you must be sure that your relaxation isn't going to bring additional obstacles into critical play. ie fly the profile as published.
(b) Minimum flap retraction altitudes are just that...minimum altitude. Nothing prevents you from retracting them at a later time.
The only minimum, as such, is the 400 ft requirement. Otherwise, the escape is predicated on the sums. Unless you know that you are above all relevant obstacles (which should be addressed by some explicit means in the procedure) extending the second segment might compromise you a little as the gradients (and, hence, third segment distance) are affected.
