KingAir 200 Engine Starting Question
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KingAir 200 Engine Starting Question
Just began flying BE20's recently after leaving previous job. Got a Q on starting....
Serials BB1401 and BB1436....
As far as starting the engines (normal batt start, no GPU), as I understand it, after you do a normal start on the Right Hand engine, you turn the Right Gen ON, wait for load to decrease. (there are more steps I know, but im shortening the steps to make it easier to read).
Then you turn the RH Gen OFF, and then proceed to start the Left Engine.
Is the reason you switch the RH Gen off because you dont want the initial start draw for the LH Engine to come off the RH Gen and blow a current limiter? Correct or incorrect?
I ask because in my official Raytheon/Beech manual, for a normal Batt start, in the normal procedures, they DONT have you turn off the RH Gen, but just leave it on during the start of the LH Engine....?....
Any insight appreciated.
Serials BB1401 and BB1436....
As far as starting the engines (normal batt start, no GPU), as I understand it, after you do a normal start on the Right Hand engine, you turn the Right Gen ON, wait for load to decrease. (there are more steps I know, but im shortening the steps to make it easier to read).
Then you turn the RH Gen OFF, and then proceed to start the Left Engine.
Is the reason you switch the RH Gen off because you dont want the initial start draw for the LH Engine to come off the RH Gen and blow a current limiter? Correct or incorrect?
I ask because in my official Raytheon/Beech manual, for a normal Batt start, in the normal procedures, they DONT have you turn off the RH Gen, but just leave it on during the start of the LH Engine....?....
Any insight appreciated.
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Please take this information with a grain of salt 
, operated some straight 200's several years ago, for the aircraft I used to fly you are correct concerning the current limiter problem, Because of the initial draw when you hit the starter you would expect to burn one out in one or two starts and at the very least cause some arcing, electrical systems may have been modified since I operated. We had a pretty sharp engineer on staff and we modified our procedures, we had a Christie sp battery charger and kept our ni-cads in top shape, instead of following the Beech procedure we fired up #2 and immediately followed by starting up #1 (or visa versa, long time ago), when the second engine hit about 12% we turned on the first generator.
This procedure only cycles the batteries once, your batteries must be in top condition and you can't go in and listen to the ATIS and get your clearance prior to using this method, this will take the top charge off your battery.
Good flying, the 200 is one of my all time favorites!
, operated some straight 200's several years ago, for the aircraft I used to fly you are correct concerning the current limiter problem, Because of the initial draw when you hit the starter you would expect to burn one out in one or two starts and at the very least cause some arcing, electrical systems may have been modified since I operated. We had a pretty sharp engineer on staff and we modified our procedures, we had a Christie sp battery charger and kept our ni-cads in top shape, instead of following the Beech procedure we fired up #2 and immediately followed by starting up #1 (or visa versa, long time ago), when the second engine hit about 12% we turned on the first generator. This procedure only cycles the batteries once, your batteries must be in top condition and you can't go in and listen to the ATIS and get your clearance prior to using this method, this will take the top charge off your battery.
Good flying, the 200 is one of my all time favorites!
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It's been a few years since I flew the King Air, but if I remember it, the bus breaker fuse blows at 300Amps, and the initial (only for a couple of seconds, mind you) current draw from the starter can be as high as 600Amps. I believe you're correct that it's about saving the starter/generator from overload damage.
Any current King Air drivers know more?
Any current King Air drivers know more?
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Is the reason you switch the RH Gen off because you dont want the initial start draw for the LH Engine to come off the RH Gen and blow a current limiter? Correct or incorrect?
I ask because in my official Raytheon/Beech manual, for a normal Batt start, in the normal procedures, they DONT have you turn off the RH Gen, but just leave it on during the start of the LH Engine....?
Very nice machine the B200.
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....
I never knew that when you start the LH engine, the RH Gen automatically goes offline. Youd think the book would mention that somewhere. Maybe im supposed to be smart enough to figure that out? Does anyone publish a "KingAir for Dummies" book? Id probably purchase it
So, if i try that tomoroww and blow something, im coming after you!!! Are you ready for that responsibility????
na j/k....thanks for the replys guys!
If I recall correctly (it is some 16 years since I flew a Kingair) the generator shaft has a shear point - I cant think of the proper technical name - but essentially it is a weak point in the generator shaft so that if the generator bogs down it breaks the shaft and doesn't bog the engine down
I may be getting my aeroplanes mixed up and may have it totally wrong- but that is what I recall
I may be getting my aeroplanes mixed up and may have it totally wrong- but that is what I recall
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Re: The Generator shaft has a shear point - I cant think of the proper technical name?
I think it is called a Quill Shaft!
Could anyone expand on the reasons why Torque drops and ITT rises when the Engine Anti-Ice or Ice Vanes are deployed?
Cheers
I think it is called a Quill Shaft!
Could anyone expand on the reasons why Torque drops and ITT rises when the Engine Anti-Ice or Ice Vanes are deployed?
Cheers
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These starting questions are relative to the ser. no. of the aircraft.
Old King Air electrical systems didn't have the stuff they have now. The Generator Control Units have been improved, also the newer aircraft have cross-start relays that send 1/2 the juice through an alternate path to the starter, so that the current limiters don't blow.
In the old days, it was start one engine off the battery, generator on, wait till the load was below a certain number (can't recall, I think 50%), then switch gen off. Engage starter on second engine, let it motor until just before introducing fuel, then turn first gen back on, introduce fuel & complete the start.
Reasoning was this: when the starter-generator of the engine is first engaged, getting the engine turning could draw a whole lotta amps...enough to blow the current limiter (big fuse). This wasn't a problem when starting the first engine, i.e., from the batt only, as the batt just couldn't supply this amount of amps. However...if the first engine started gen was on line when the second start was initiated, said gen could and would supply this amp spike, and voila, current limiter burnout.
You checked for said burnout after getting both started & both gens on line by turning off one gen, if the CL was blown, the opposite load would go to zero. You have to look at the schematic to see this.
Anyway...back to the theory...so when you get ready to start the second engine and turn the first gen off, you energize the starter and the initial current surge is again only what the battery can supply....then the draw drops down to a safe level....so at that point you can re-introduce the operating gen into the bus and the amps won't spike. Make sense?
Now in the newer King Airs the aforementioned improvements in GCU's and this Cross-Start Relay thing eliminate the problem. If you have newer aircraft (and I think 1400 ser. no.'s should be what, maybe 7 or eight years old?) then this stuff should be installed; if you follow the Beech checklist you should be OK. Check Chapter 7 in your POH for the info.
Regardless, you will see a lot of the old guys start the engines as I have described, and it doesn't hurt anything....a little extra work, but old habits die hard.
As to the ice vane/engine-anti-ice question, just take a look at the schematics in the POH, or better yet, look at the nacelles when the anti-ice is on (it should be on the ground, at all times, to minimize FOD damage to the engine, therefore after shutdown eyeball it). You will see that the "flap" comes down and the rearward "door" is open to provide a deflection in the intake airflow. This means particles with intertia, like snow, rain, etc., will continue on a straight line and out the "door" while particle with a lot less inertia, i.e., air molecules, will "make the turn" and continue on into the compressor. However of course any such deflection acts to reduce the amount of air coming into the engine, and voila, you lose torque & raise the ITT. That's a good rule to remember with any turbine engine, if you have a torque loss and and ITT rise, you are losing combustion intake air for some reason, which it might be a good idea to identify.
All this from memory, take it with a grain of salt.
Old King Air electrical systems didn't have the stuff they have now. The Generator Control Units have been improved, also the newer aircraft have cross-start relays that send 1/2 the juice through an alternate path to the starter, so that the current limiters don't blow.
In the old days, it was start one engine off the battery, generator on, wait till the load was below a certain number (can't recall, I think 50%), then switch gen off. Engage starter on second engine, let it motor until just before introducing fuel, then turn first gen back on, introduce fuel & complete the start.
Reasoning was this: when the starter-generator of the engine is first engaged, getting the engine turning could draw a whole lotta amps...enough to blow the current limiter (big fuse). This wasn't a problem when starting the first engine, i.e., from the batt only, as the batt just couldn't supply this amount of amps. However...if the first engine started gen was on line when the second start was initiated, said gen could and would supply this amp spike, and voila, current limiter burnout.
You checked for said burnout after getting both started & both gens on line by turning off one gen, if the CL was blown, the opposite load would go to zero. You have to look at the schematic to see this.
Anyway...back to the theory...so when you get ready to start the second engine and turn the first gen off, you energize the starter and the initial current surge is again only what the battery can supply....then the draw drops down to a safe level....so at that point you can re-introduce the operating gen into the bus and the amps won't spike. Make sense?
Now in the newer King Airs the aforementioned improvements in GCU's and this Cross-Start Relay thing eliminate the problem. If you have newer aircraft (and I think 1400 ser. no.'s should be what, maybe 7 or eight years old?) then this stuff should be installed; if you follow the Beech checklist you should be OK. Check Chapter 7 in your POH for the info.
Regardless, you will see a lot of the old guys start the engines as I have described, and it doesn't hurt anything....a little extra work, but old habits die hard.
As to the ice vane/engine-anti-ice question, just take a look at the schematics in the POH, or better yet, look at the nacelles when the anti-ice is on (it should be on the ground, at all times, to minimize FOD damage to the engine, therefore after shutdown eyeball it). You will see that the "flap" comes down and the rearward "door" is open to provide a deflection in the intake airflow. This means particles with intertia, like snow, rain, etc., will continue on a straight line and out the "door" while particle with a lot less inertia, i.e., air molecules, will "make the turn" and continue on into the compressor. However of course any such deflection acts to reduce the amount of air coming into the engine, and voila, you lose torque & raise the ITT. That's a good rule to remember with any turbine engine, if you have a torque loss and and ITT rise, you are losing combustion intake air for some reason, which it might be a good idea to identify.
All this from memory, take it with a grain of salt.
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KA Q
As an Instructor Pilot and Checkairmen in all KA at some time in my career I have seen the start done both ways. The rule is prior to the Current limiter change to 325amp drop right gen off before start (expecially nicad) and you may never lose the current limiter. Always check after both starts. STC'ed aircraft and those after BB1400 with the newer GCU's very seldome lose CL's, but they do blow from quick starts (high Rt Gen loads) or electrical abuse to the system (inflight engine starts or flight training).
Gen loads for nicads are less than 40 is OK less than 30% on right prefferd.
8000 hours in KA's and counting!
Gen loads for nicads are less than 40 is OK less than 30% on right prefferd.
8000 hours in KA's and counting!
