Cleared high speed......
Another reason why you might increase speed below 10 is to catch the profile after ATC didn't descend you on time..
So actually it also unsafe to accelerate above 10?
Doesn't the Goose make it somewhere until level 300?
Alex, when do you accelerate/decelerate?
If I remember well, econ descent in a 737 is often around 280 kts. So if you have a choice, why wouldn't you fly it down to final intercept? It's also a bit of a waste to always reduce to 250 -oh no, 240 to make sure you stay under 250- in all conditions.
You don't have to fly like a cowboy while at the same time being efficient in time and energy management.
You should do a search,for ex for the 767 AA bird hit,at FL120,
Doesn't the Goose make it somewhere until level 300?
Alex, when do you accelerate/decelerate?
If I remember well, econ descent in a 737 is often around 280 kts. So if you have a choice, why wouldn't you fly it down to final intercept? It's also a bit of a waste to always reduce to 250 -oh no, 240 to make sure you stay under 250- in all conditions.
You don't have to fly like a cowboy while at the same time being efficient in time and energy management.
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well, ray ,the risk of encountering birds decreases with higher altitude,even though big birds were seen at FL 270 . In the case of the 767 I was pointing the risk of hitting birds at high speeds,no matter what FL you're at.
We do accelerate/decelerate at FL100,no problem in doing that.And you do not remember well,the econ descent is dependent of cost index,and for a CI of 50,the econ will be 320 kts,a bit fast,one may say.
If I have a choice,and I usually have,I reduce at FL100 at 250kts. Why? Main reason birds,and also,in my area of operation,especially in summer,moderate to heavy turbulance bellow FL80 (hot,windy..) So,a lot more comfy flying at 250 kts. A bit of waste ,you say..a bit of waste of what?
As I see,you're pretty young.I can assure you,after getting one pigeon right between front windshields (loud bang,FO jumping out of chair,myself ducking under the dashbord,hopefully speed around 210 kts,only bloodstains..
) you'll change your enthusiam for high speeds close to the ground.
If you still think you're safe and fast ,check this photos :http://aviation-safety.net/database/...0402-1&lang=en
( I hope I'm allowed to put that link here,the pictures are very impressive and must be seen by any pilot,speedy or not)
We do accelerate/decelerate at FL100,no problem in doing that.And you do not remember well,the econ descent is dependent of cost index,and for a CI of 50,the econ will be 320 kts,a bit fast,one may say.
If I have a choice,and I usually have,I reduce at FL100 at 250kts. Why? Main reason birds,and also,in my area of operation,especially in summer,moderate to heavy turbulance bellow FL80 (hot,windy..) So,a lot more comfy flying at 250 kts. A bit of waste ,you say..a bit of waste of what?
As I see,you're pretty young.I can assure you,after getting one pigeon right between front windshields (loud bang,FO jumping out of chair,myself ducking under the dashbord,hopefully speed around 210 kts,only bloodstains..
) you'll change your enthusiam for high speeds close to the ground.If you still think you're safe and fast ,check this photos :http://aviation-safety.net/database/...0402-1&lang=en
( I hope I'm allowed to put that link here,the pictures are very impressive and must be seen by any pilot,speedy or not)
Last edited by alexban; 1st Dec 2006 at 19:12.
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Gday Alex,
Visual approach, 10nm from the field, approaching at 90degrees to RWY direction, level 2000', gear at 260kts, decel holding it level thru flap extension all the way to F30 and join left base for a 3nm final.
Doesn't work so well with much tailwind during the decel
Slamer and Ray make very valid points.
Cheers,
Con
P.S I am both a thrill seeker and sucker apparently
Visual approach, 10nm from the field, approaching at 90degrees to RWY direction, level 2000', gear at 260kts, decel holding it level thru flap extension all the way to F30 and join left base for a 3nm final.
Doesn't work so well with much tailwind during the decel
Slamer and Ray make very valid points.
Cheers,
Con
P.S I am both a thrill seeker and sucker apparently
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When you visit us out west:
"Airspeed Limitations
602.32 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet ASL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots.
(2) No person shall operate an aircraft below 3,000 feet AGL within 10 nautical miles of a controlled airport at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots unless authorized to do so in an air traffic control clearance.
(3) Notwithstanding subsections (1) and (2), a person may operate an aircraft at an indicated airspeed greater than the airspeeds referred to in subsections (1) and (2) where the aircraft is being operated on departure or in accordance with a special flight operations certificate - special aviation event issued pursuant to section 603.02.
(4) Where the minimum safe speed for the flight configuration of an aircraft is greater than the speed referred to in subsection (1) or (2), the aircraft shall be operated at the minimum safe speed."
And this one:
"Reckless or Negligent Operation of Aircraft
602.01 No person shall operate an aircraft in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger the life or property of any person."
"Airspeed Limitations
602.32 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet ASL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots.
(2) No person shall operate an aircraft below 3,000 feet AGL within 10 nautical miles of a controlled airport at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots unless authorized to do so in an air traffic control clearance.
(3) Notwithstanding subsections (1) and (2), a person may operate an aircraft at an indicated airspeed greater than the airspeeds referred to in subsections (1) and (2) where the aircraft is being operated on departure or in accordance with a special flight operations certificate - special aviation event issued pursuant to section 603.02.
(4) Where the minimum safe speed for the flight configuration of an aircraft is greater than the speed referred to in subsection (1) or (2), the aircraft shall be operated at the minimum safe speed."
And this one:
"Reckless or Negligent Operation of Aircraft
602.01 No person shall operate an aircraft in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger the life or property of any person."
Last edited by xsbank; 3rd Dec 2006 at 00:15. Reason: an addition
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level 2000', gear at 260kts
Certainly not 260 knots of that I am sure. Gooday Cowboy...
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Many of you are saying that if you can do high speed, why not? It's more efficient. Well not if you've planned on 250/10000ft in the box surely? The box plans an idle decent, so if you've implemented slowing to 250kts at 10,000ft, it will do so with idle thrust then continue at idle at that speed until configuring. As soon as you erase that 250kts below 10,000ft out the box, you're low on the profile and at some point will need thrust to regain that profile whereas before you'd spend that time at idle.
I don't understand people who will willingly do 320kts below 10k...it sure isn't ECON speed with todays fuel prices, and I very much doubt it's in any company SOP though I do seem to here it an awful lot from the same operator...
I don't understand people who will willingly do 320kts below 10k...it sure isn't ECON speed with todays fuel prices, and I very much doubt it's in any company SOP though I do seem to here it an awful lot from the same operator...
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TM,
A cowboy I may be, but get your facts straight before you have a go!
From Boeing FCOM Vol 2 Page 14.10.1
Landing Gear Limit (IAS)
Extend 270-.82M
Retract 235K
Extended 320K-.82M
Cheers,
Con
Edit: TM, on re reading your post I see you make point of saying " recommended speed". I havn't seen where Boeing state one for the gear, only Flap??
Gear out at 260kts is not a daily ocurrance and is below the Limit speed, so where is the problem?
A cowboy I may be, but get your facts straight before you have a go!
From Boeing FCOM Vol 2 Page 14.10.1
Landing Gear Limit (IAS)
Extend 270-.82M
Retract 235K
Extended 320K-.82M
Cheers,
Con
Edit: TM, on re reading your post I see you make point of saying " recommended speed". I havn't seen where Boeing state one for the gear, only Flap??
Gear out at 260kts is not a daily ocurrance and is below the Limit speed, so where is the problem?
Last edited by Contract Con; 3rd Dec 2006 at 20:49.
