Vertical Rates of Descent
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Permanently lost
Vertical Rates of Descent
I have tried a quick search through the forums but without success so here goes.
What vertical rates of descent are used in jet transports from TOD to approach?
Some years ago I was fortunate enough to visit the cockpit of a 717 for a brief time which included the top of descent. I recall the FO setting a vertical rate of 3,500' in the autopilot controller and then watching the glass VSI going to that rate (with the autothrottles retarding). Now that rate would be positively dangerous at lower altitudes so I presume a lesser rate is dialed in at some stage.
I know the TOD point is roughly 3 x altitude (in thousands) plus a fudge factor to get the beasty slowed but it is the rate that has me baffled. Any information greatly appreciated.
What vertical rates of descent are used in jet transports from TOD to approach?
Some years ago I was fortunate enough to visit the cockpit of a 717 for a brief time which included the top of descent. I recall the FO setting a vertical rate of 3,500' in the autopilot controller and then watching the glass VSI going to that rate (with the autothrottles retarding). Now that rate would be positively dangerous at lower altitudes so I presume a lesser rate is dialed in at some stage.
I know the TOD point is roughly 3 x altitude (in thousands) plus a fudge factor to get the beasty slowed but it is the rate that has me baffled. Any information greatly appreciated.
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Europe-the sunshine side
If you do a computer calculated profile descent,first part of the descent will be made according to Mach speed,which will give a high ROD,something between 3000-4000'/min. Bellow FL260,the target speed will become IAS and the ROD will reduce to aprox 2500-2000 '/min.As you reduce speed,preparing for final app,the ROD will reduce also.Around 210 kts ROD is aprox 1500'/min.
If you select to descent using VS ,then (for ex.)at a point about 20 NM before TOD you may select a ROD of about 2500'/min ,and later reduce to 2000'/min. All depends of weight,wind,temp,FL,etc...but those are roughly the numbers used.
Closer to the ground lower the Vs used of course.
If you select to descent using VS ,then (for ex.)at a point about 20 NM before TOD you may select a ROD of about 2500'/min ,and later reduce to 2000'/min. All depends of weight,wind,temp,FL,etc...but those are roughly the numbers used.
Closer to the ground lower the Vs used of course.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
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From: Permanently lost
Thank you for the replies. You have confirmed my suspicions.
However, I was not aware that the descent was similar to the climb, that is, at the upper levels it is controlled by a mach number.
Thanks again.
However, I was not aware that the descent was similar to the climb, that is, at the upper levels it is controlled by a mach number.
Thanks again.
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: US
Rule of thumb is to take your descent angle (3 degrees typically) x mach number = VVI descent.
.80 x 3 = 2400' per minute descent.
At 250 KIAS at low altitude 757/767's tend to descend around 1300-1500' FPM.
3500 FPM isn't dangerous unless it's really low. High speed arrivals and a desire to descend quickly sometimes causes descent rates like that below 10,000 AGL.
.80 x 3 = 2400' per minute descent.
At 250 KIAS at low altitude 757/767's tend to descend around 1300-1500' FPM.
3500 FPM isn't dangerous unless it's really low. High speed arrivals and a desire to descend quickly sometimes causes descent rates like that below 10,000 AGL.
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: No one's home...
I have tried a quick search through the forums but without success so here goes.
What vertical rates of descent are used in jet transports from TOD to approach?
Some years ago I was fortunate enough to visit the cockpit of a 717 for a brief time which included the top of descent. I recall the FO setting a vertical rate of 3,500' in the autopilot controller and then watching the glass VSI going to that rate (with the autothrottles retarding). Now that rate would be positively dangerous at lower altitudes so I presume a lesser rate is dialed in at some stage.
I know the TOD point is roughly 3 x altitude (in thousands) plus a fudge factor to get the beasty slowed but it is the rate that has me baffled. Any information greatly appreciated.
What vertical rates of descent are used in jet transports from TOD to approach?
Some years ago I was fortunate enough to visit the cockpit of a 717 for a brief time which included the top of descent. I recall the FO setting a vertical rate of 3,500' in the autopilot controller and then watching the glass VSI going to that rate (with the autothrottles retarding). Now that rate would be positively dangerous at lower altitudes so I presume a lesser rate is dialed in at some stage.
I know the TOD point is roughly 3 x altitude (in thousands) plus a fudge factor to get the beasty slowed but it is the rate that has me baffled. Any information greatly appreciated.
The next gate is 10nm at 200-210kts (unless DC-9/MD-80 where you can be considerable faster or in a Jurassic 727.. all of these vehicles have great abilities to slow rapidly if that makes sense).
The final gate is 3nm and 1000ft and near Vref for a stabilized approach and 3deg slope in wx.
As noted earlier.. you can use Mach number to figure a lot of stuff. At 0.80m you are travelling about 8 miles per minute (no wind). You're at FL350. Your clearance is to cross X at 10,000 and 250kts. You have 25,000ft to lose. Choose your rate of descent...
At a modest rate of 2400fpm, you will lower the nose 3 degrees from your level flight attitude, use about 11 minutes (round to the high side) so you begin 88nm before your crossing fix.
Of course, if you choose rate you have to accept speed as whatever the descent rate produces.
And then, on most stuff, you just begin descent when the dot tells you to..
Doesn't always work but at least you have something to blame if it fails.
