Question for Easyjet pilots regarding routes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chigwell, Essex
Age: 48
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question for Easyjet pilots regarding routes
Hi all,
I live in Chigwell. Yesterday, I noticed an Easyjet A319 fly over using the local Lambourne End VOR/DME. It must have been at about 10,000ft heading north crossing the inbound Heathrow traffic. I kept my eye on it to see if it was going to descend towards Stansted, but it carried on North.
Were about's would this aircraft come from if it uses the Lambourne End VOR/DME and where would it be heading to? Speaking to several Ryanair pilots on here lead me to believe that Stansted traffic uses different approaches.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
I live in Chigwell. Yesterday, I noticed an Easyjet A319 fly over using the local Lambourne End VOR/DME. It must have been at about 10,000ft heading north crossing the inbound Heathrow traffic. I kept my eye on it to see if it was going to descend towards Stansted, but it carried on North.
Were about's would this aircraft come from if it uses the Lambourne End VOR/DME and where would it be heading to? Speaking to several Ryanair pilots on here lead me to believe that Stansted traffic uses different approaches.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Paul,
I agree with outofsynch, but would go a stage further and say he probably WAS using the LAM VOR, rather than being hand-vectored... here's why:
It certainly sounds likeliest that he was out of Gatwick, on a LAM4M/4V or LAM5P/5W SID (Standard Instrument Departure) which would've put him at LAM VOR at 6000ft, heading 340 degrees (which is pretty north-ish, when viewed obliquely from the ground!)
From there, he's probably Edinburgh, Glasgow or Inverness bound, would be my guess. Those appear to be the only Gatwick-departing choices for airports north, according the EZY website.
What time of day did you see him? It might be possible to work it out from that?
It also might be worth checking for the winds on that day/time... if they were easterly, Gatwick would've been operating out of 08L and 08R, which would account for the traffic leaving for the north via LAM SIDs, rather than the more usual KENET SIDs west then north off of 26L & 26R. Easterly ops are 'unusual' insofar as the prevailing wind is most often a westerly, but it's not uncommon, by any means.
I would've expected him to make a 8 degree turn left, though, at LAM (which again may have been imperceptible from the ground, perhaps?), to get himself on the N601/UN601, heading 332 degrees, probably all the way to POL VOR (Pole Hill), which is pretty standard for (at the very least) the Glasgow LANAK1A STAR via MARGO and TLA, and probably all the Scottish airports for all I know (I can check if you're interested).
Hope this helps! Thanks for giving me an interesting lunch-hour playing EZY detective! Been fun!
I agree with outofsynch, but would go a stage further and say he probably WAS using the LAM VOR, rather than being hand-vectored... here's why:
It certainly sounds likeliest that he was out of Gatwick, on a LAM4M/4V or LAM5P/5W SID (Standard Instrument Departure) which would've put him at LAM VOR at 6000ft, heading 340 degrees (which is pretty north-ish, when viewed obliquely from the ground!)
From there, he's probably Edinburgh, Glasgow or Inverness bound, would be my guess. Those appear to be the only Gatwick-departing choices for airports north, according the EZY website.
What time of day did you see him? It might be possible to work it out from that?
It also might be worth checking for the winds on that day/time... if they were easterly, Gatwick would've been operating out of 08L and 08R, which would account for the traffic leaving for the north via LAM SIDs, rather than the more usual KENET SIDs west then north off of 26L & 26R. Easterly ops are 'unusual' insofar as the prevailing wind is most often a westerly, but it's not uncommon, by any means.
I would've expected him to make a 8 degree turn left, though, at LAM (which again may have been imperceptible from the ground, perhaps?), to get himself on the N601/UN601, heading 332 degrees, probably all the way to POL VOR (Pole Hill), which is pretty standard for (at the very least) the Glasgow LANAK1A STAR via MARGO and TLA, and probably all the Scottish airports for all I know (I can check if you're interested).
Hope this helps! Thanks for giving me an interesting lunch-hour playing EZY detective!
Been fun!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chigwell, Essex
Age: 48
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for your help. The time was around 6:25pm and the height sounds about right.
Is there anywhere where you can track aircraft around the LAM VOR/DME without purchasing an audio receiver? I have heard that there are a few PC based tracking programs but they only serve the U.S.
Also is there an online resource which plots aircraft routes?
Any help would be appreciated!
Is there anywhere where you can track aircraft around the LAM VOR/DME without purchasing an audio receiver? I have heard that there are a few PC based tracking programs but they only serve the U.S.
Also is there an online resource which plots aircraft routes?
Any help would be appreciated!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmm, 6.25pm is a little early for the evening Glasgow or Edinburgh flights, and a little late for the Inverness (or Belfast) flights. I suppose it could be either of the latter two, with a delay, perhaps?
Re tracking, there are some online websites that purport to do 'live tracking' - Google will turn up tons using the terms 'flight' and 'tracking' -but as you've no doubt already discovered, they are very US-centric, and where they do cover UK flights, they'll only be transatlantic ones.
You could have a look at the ACARSD website (www.acarsd.org) which purports to retransmit ACARS info on the web (either via a standalone client app, or via a web-interface), and doesn't need you to have a radio. Obviously, this will only cover traffic which is ACARS-fitted (by no means all), and it's probably a bit esoteric, though it is possible to hook it up to another program (PosFix, I think) which will display a dot on a map, but only when each plane sends another ACARS message with position data in it. In short, rather 'sketchy' coverage, alas.
Can't think of anything else, sorry... and can't help thinking that el cheapo airband radio off of Ebay or a car-booty is probably your best bet, even though it's not your desired solution.
Regards
Re tracking, there are some online websites that purport to do 'live tracking' - Google will turn up tons using the terms 'flight' and 'tracking' -but as you've no doubt already discovered, they are very US-centric, and where they do cover UK flights, they'll only be transatlantic ones.
You could have a look at the ACARSD website (www.acarsd.org) which purports to retransmit ACARS info on the web (either via a standalone client app, or via a web-interface), and doesn't need you to have a radio. Obviously, this will only cover traffic which is ACARS-fitted (by no means all), and it's probably a bit esoteric, though it is possible to hook it up to another program (PosFix, I think) which will display a dot on a map, but only when each plane sends another ACARS message with position data in it. In short, rather 'sketchy' coverage, alas.
Can't think of anything else, sorry... and can't help thinking that el cheapo airband radio off of Ebay or a car-booty is probably your best bet, even though it's not your desired solution.
Regards
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I originally had a long post in mind, covering the possibilities of it being a flight into Nottingham East Midlands, possibly from any of Rome, Geneva, Basle, Cologne or Venice - basically anything that would've come in via SOVAT and SANDY on the UL613 then N57, from the central/east side of Europe (as opposed to the Spanish & Baleriacs west side).
I picked Nott East Mids because there's a STAR (PIGOT) using WELIN (and I know the KLM Schiphol-Brum trip turns at LAM for HEMEL & BUZAD which is on the same T420 airways as WELIN, so figured this might be happening here too, onto either the N57 or T420, both will get you to WELIN - but of course, Paul never mentioned it TURNING at LAM, just overflying north). The height stated (FL100) seemed just about feasible for an approach to East Mids. I ruled out Stansted and Luton on the basis that Paul said it was flying level and didn't descend...
In the end, I dumped the whole theory in preference for the Gatwick departure one, simply because in no instance would any of the Notts inbounds be going even close to "due North" over LAM (unless hand-vectored). Whilst vectoring IS a possibility, it doesn't make sense... there are airways there, and they tend to get flown! The TMA is a busy place, and ATCOs are renowned for hand-vectoring overflight traffic unless there's a real need... they have their hands full enough dealing with the CDA traffic coming into Heathrow!
So... a delayed Gatwick departure 'oop North' is still my trip of choice, personally, if only because the heading off the LAM SID is 'almost north (within 20 deg) and the height is about right, and explains the 'not descending' situation... but of course I'm open to correction, if you think you have a better one?
All a bit of fun, mind... As I said earlier, I get a buzz out of this kind of (silly) detective work... beats doing crosswords
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chigwell, Essex
Age: 48
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow! Pretty in depth stuff there! Tell me, do you have this thought process everytime an aircraft flies over?
Hehe - could be, maybe.... but are you gonna share your workings-out with the rest of the class?
I originally had a long post in mind, covering the possibilities of it being a flight into Nottingham East Midlands, possibly from any of Rome, Geneva, Basle, Cologne or Venice - basically anything that would've come in via SOVAT and SANDY on the UL613 then N57, from the central/east side of Europe (as opposed to the Spanish & Baleriacs west side).
I picked Nott East Mids because there's a STAR (PIGOT) using WELIN (and I know the KLM Schiphol-Brum trip turns at LAM for HEMEL & BUZAD which is on the same T420 airways as WELIN, so figured this might be happening here too, onto either the N57 or T420, both will get you to WELIN - but of course, Paul never mentioned it TURNING at LAM, just overflying north). The height stated (FL100) seemed just about feasible for an approach to East Mids. I ruled out Stansted and Luton on the basis that Paul said it was flying level and didn't descend...
In the end, I dumped the whole theory in preference for the Gatwick departure one, simply because in no instance would any of the Notts inbounds be going even close to "due North" over LAM (unless hand-vectored). Whilst vectoring IS a possibility, it doesn't make sense... there are airways there, and they tend to get flown! The TMA is a busy place, and ATCOs are renowned for hand-vectoring overflight traffic unless there's a real need... they have their hands full enough dealing with the CDA traffic coming into Heathrow!
So... a delayed Gatwick departure 'oop North' is still my trip of choice, personally, if only because the heading off the LAM SID is 'almost north (within 20 deg) and the height is about right, and explains the 'not descending' situation... but of course I'm open to correction, if you think you have a better one?
All a bit of fun, mind... As I said earlier, I get a buzz out of this kind of (silly) detective work... beats doing crosswords
I originally had a long post in mind, covering the possibilities of it being a flight into Nottingham East Midlands, possibly from any of Rome, Geneva, Basle, Cologne or Venice - basically anything that would've come in via SOVAT and SANDY on the UL613 then N57, from the central/east side of Europe (as opposed to the Spanish & Baleriacs west side).
I picked Nott East Mids because there's a STAR (PIGOT) using WELIN (and I know the KLM Schiphol-Brum trip turns at LAM for HEMEL & BUZAD which is on the same T420 airways as WELIN, so figured this might be happening here too, onto either the N57 or T420, both will get you to WELIN - but of course, Paul never mentioned it TURNING at LAM, just overflying north). The height stated (FL100) seemed just about feasible for an approach to East Mids. I ruled out Stansted and Luton on the basis that Paul said it was flying level and didn't descend...
In the end, I dumped the whole theory in preference for the Gatwick departure one, simply because in no instance would any of the Notts inbounds be going even close to "due North" over LAM (unless hand-vectored). Whilst vectoring IS a possibility, it doesn't make sense... there are airways there, and they tend to get flown! The TMA is a busy place, and ATCOs are renowned for hand-vectoring overflight traffic unless there's a real need... they have their hands full enough dealing with the CDA traffic coming into Heathrow!
So... a delayed Gatwick departure 'oop North' is still my trip of choice, personally, if only because the heading off the LAM SID is 'almost north (within 20 deg) and the height is about right, and explains the 'not descending' situation... but of course I'm open to correction, if you think you have a better one?
All a bit of fun, mind... As I said earlier, I get a buzz out of this kind of (silly) detective work... beats doing crosswords
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm just lucky enough to have access to the various charts and flightplans that (sometimes) makes it relatively feasible to work out, or at least narrow down to a handful of possibilities.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL - I wouldn't rely on MSFS to tell me where due north was! 
Not even roughly! Nah, seriously, although it might've been pretty accurate once, much of the airways and waypoint data has changed drastically - especially in the UK - and stupidly, MS left no easy way for it to be updated internally.
Use what the real pilots use - the UK Air Information Publication. Check out http://www.ais.org.uk - you'll need to register, but it's free, and is the official word on UK routings and procedures.
For the rest of Europe, register free with http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int for the same kind of stuff, in all countries which come under the Eurocontrol umbrella. The PAMS Light system there, although quite complicated to navigate at first, will give you all the SID and STAR charts and standard routes, etc.
For America, see http://avn.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp for their online digital Terminal Procedures charts and docs - no need to register with that one.
Of course, if you want paper charts, (which cost), you'll have to try Jeppeson, Aerad or the RAF's Air Information Documents Unit http://www.aidu.mod.uk, or check out Pooley's famous flight-store at http://www.pooleys.com - but be prepared to make a dent in your wallet!
Not even roughly! Nah, seriously, although it might've been pretty accurate once, much of the airways and waypoint data has changed drastically - especially in the UK - and stupidly, MS left no easy way for it to be updated internally.Use what the real pilots use - the UK Air Information Publication. Check out http://www.ais.org.uk - you'll need to register, but it's free, and is the official word on UK routings and procedures.
For the rest of Europe, register free with http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int for the same kind of stuff, in all countries which come under the Eurocontrol umbrella. The PAMS Light system there, although quite complicated to navigate at first, will give you all the SID and STAR charts and standard routes, etc.
For America, see http://avn.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp for their online digital Terminal Procedures charts and docs - no need to register with that one.
Of course, if you want paper charts, (which cost), you'll have to try Jeppeson, Aerad or the RAF's Air Information Documents Unit http://www.aidu.mod.uk, or check out Pooley's famous flight-store at http://www.pooleys.com - but be prepared to make a dent in your wallet!
