Cargo smoke detectors inop.
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Cargo smoke detectors inop.
I found an inoperative cargo smoke detector today (ATR, aft cargo compt). It was deferred, but the MEL says "no combustible cargo allowed". I had a dispute with our dispachers, as I claimed "combustible" is anything that may burn (therefore normal passenger luggage is combustible and eg. water isn't) and the dispach claimed "combustible" is something that burns easily - i.e. it's o.k to get normal luggage, but I couldn't load any flammable DGR goods into the compatrment. I know it's a bit of a language problem, as English isn't my mother tongue. However, I felt I was right and was reclutant to accept the dispatch definition. What would you do? Go with it or leave the baggage? What do MELs of other a/c say about cargo smk det. systems? Are there any rules on when cargo smk system is required?
Join Date: Mar 1999
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The argument is combustable verses flammable. Luggage will certainly support combustion and now with everyones flammable cosmetics stuffed in there.........The aircraft I operate (not the ATR) may not have any cargo loaded into any compartment where the smoke detectors are inop!
Bags=combustible. Bottle of booze, can of hair spray, Chav shellsuits etc etc . They all burn.
Our company MEL makes a positive assertion that bags are combustible. T-fly
Our company MEL makes a positive assertion that bags are combustible. T-fly
Join Date: Nov 2002
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We always carry a spare smoke detector for that case. 
Interesting question though - I will investigate a little with my operator to see what our books say.
I'd stick with "flite idol" no cargo in a compartment without smoke detector.
Interesting question though - I will investigate a little with my operator to see what our books say.
I'd stick with "flite idol" no cargo in a compartment without smoke detector.
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As both a pilot and dispatcher, I can see both sides of the argument.
First, I wouldn't debate the MEL with the Flight Crew since it's a Company-specific document with which I would not be familiar (note, I work for a handling agent, NOT an airline).
Secondly, I never argue with Flight (or Cabin) Crew and on technical matters I would respect their decision, whatever it may be.
Thirdly, in this case, I would totally agree with your decision; while we could elaborate forever on the distinction between flammable and combustible, I know that most airlines I dispatch would support your interpretation, i.e. no serviceable smoke detector = hold is u/s. If that means leaving bags/cargo behind, then so be it. Safety is paramount. Full stop.
Cheers
First, I wouldn't debate the MEL with the Flight Crew since it's a Company-specific document with which I would not be familiar (note, I work for a handling agent, NOT an airline).
Secondly, I never argue with Flight (or Cabin) Crew and on technical matters I would respect their decision, whatever it may be.
Thirdly, in this case, I would totally agree with your decision; while we could elaborate forever on the distinction between flammable and combustible, I know that most airlines I dispatch would support your interpretation, i.e. no serviceable smoke detector = hold is u/s. If that means leaving bags/cargo behind, then so be it. Safety is paramount. Full stop.
Cheers
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I liked the question so I did a bit of searching. It appears that "Combustable" means that it can burn and will ignite but its flashpoint is above 100° F (37.8° C) and "Flammable" means the item is easily capable of ignition and has a flashpoint less than the above. However, that it where you should ask for guidance - short of trying to set fire to passengers bags to see how readily they ignite...
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