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Minimum clean speed 747

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Minimum clean speed 747

Old 12th Jul 2006, 23:00
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Minimum clean speed 747

Help! Could someone grab their FAR AIM and check FAR 91.70
The guys I'm flying the 74 with say a fed jumped all over them for not asking for a high speed climb below 10,000 in Class B. Minimum clean for that day was above 250 Kts. Maybe I'm wrong or just seriously jetlagged sitting in a fareast hotel room, but I thought it was 250 -or- minimum clean which would require one not having to ask for high speed climb. Thank you and goodnight. Your inputs are much appreciated.
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Old 12th Jul 2006, 23:51
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FAR 91.117(d)

"If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed".
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Old 13th Jul 2006, 00:03
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Thumbs up

I too am a "Clause (d)" man.

However, you'd be hard to justify going faster than Vftc+20 which is the manufacturer's safe speed clean after takeoff.

G'day
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Old 13th Jul 2006, 00:08
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Originally Posted by Captain Airclues
FAR 91.117(d)
"If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed".
Absolutely Correct!, and.......

ATC must be advised that you require to do so. It's a requirement, not a request, and I've never had a U.S. controller argue the point whenever advised that a higher speed is necessary.

Regards,

Old Smokey
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Old 13th Jul 2006, 00:36
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ATC must be advised that you require to do so.
This is the point. You must advise ATC. If your friend says "a fed jumped all over them for not asking for a high speed climb below 10,000 in Class B." he may have omitted to tell ATC he required the higher speed.
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Old 13th Jul 2006, 00:54
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Roger that

Thanks all. So the wording in the reg's specifically says you "must advise". Or the hand get's spanked.
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Old 13th Jul 2006, 03:01
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The minimum in a Classis is about 270 - 280kts odd. Well above 250kts.
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Old 13th Jul 2006, 13:18
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The wording of the “request” appears to me to be the problem. As noted by others, this should not be a request. However the use of the term “high speed” is also wrong, as in much of the world that means a release from all speed restrictions. So an experienced Fed would be correct to take “request high speed climb” to mean a request for anything up to Vmo, and in turn jump on the crew.

“Pond Scum 347 heavy will be climbing at 270 knots” would have been “more better”, and probably not have created an issue.

Last edited by 742; 13th Jul 2006 at 20:46.
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Old 14th Jul 2006, 11:01
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Please tell me where in the FARs it says you must advise ATC...

Every place in the US I operate my 747, ATC already expects us to climb out above 250. Though SOME controllers like the heads-up, it further clutters an already saturated frequency like ORD or JFK.
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Old 14th Jul 2006, 17:22
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There's no requirement, just a courtesy call.

When there's a break in the chatter it's just good manners to let them know.

Certainly at light weights it's possible to maintain 250 'til 10,000.
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