737-200 single engine speeds & 90 min rule
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737-200 single engine speeds & 90 min rule
I am curious about hypothetically using a 737-200 between New Zealand and Australia. There are some diverts on islands between the two countries which should keep a non ETOPS aircraft within the 90 min rule.
So I can explore this could anybody out there tell me please what the single engine drift down speed is for a 732 is ?
So I can explore this could anybody out there tell me please what the single engine drift down speed is for a 732 is ?
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ETOP's....
You wouldn't get 90 minutes ETOPS to start with, probably 75 minutes. Depending on what speed you use for one engine out the range-rings could be quite limiting for trans Tasman routes. Also you'd want to be RVSM approved so you could fly above FL280.
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Yeah I realise that one doesn't get ETOPS approval without demonstrated experience on type etc, but I thought the 90 minute rule applied to aircraft that weren't ETOPS rated ?
The 90 minute rule was surely the predecessor to ETOPS wasn't it ?
Where does 75 minutes come from ?
I am just trying to understand it hypothetically.
Tell me since on the topic, there is also a term EROPS filtering into jargo which suggests ETOPS rules applied to aircraft with more than two engines ?
What is the story say with a three holer 727 flying the same routes ?
Groundloop was that a pax flight Hobart to Christchurch ?
732s have flown to the Pacific from NZ before...
The 90 minute rule was surely the predecessor to ETOPS wasn't it ?
Where does 75 minutes come from ?
I am just trying to understand it hypothetically.
Tell me since on the topic, there is also a term EROPS filtering into jargo which suggests ETOPS rules applied to aircraft with more than two engines ?
What is the story say with a three holer 727 flying the same routes ?
Groundloop was that a pax flight Hobart to Christchurch ?
732s have flown to the Pacific from NZ before...
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Originally Posted by Kiwiguy
Yeah I realise that one doesn't get ETOPS approval without demonstrated experience on type etc, but I thought the 90 minute rule applied to aircraft that weren't ETOPS rated ?
The 90 minute rule was surely the predecessor to ETOPS wasn't it ?
Where does 75 minutes come from ?
The 90 minute rule was surely the predecessor to ETOPS wasn't it ?
Where does 75 minutes come from ?
Then when ETOPS came out, US started giving out 90 minute ETOPS privileges as well as 75 minute ETOPS privileges, because the limit for non-ETOPS qualified twins remained 60 minutes.
What is the position in Australia and New Zealand?
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Kiwi - I don't know what the regs are 'down-under' but in Europe the 60 minutes are at single engine cruise speed, sometimes known as the 'over water speed' We do NOT consider 'drift-down' speed in the calculations.
If you can work your way through it, there is more here.
If you can work your way through it, there is more here.
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Under JAR-OPS 1 :
Unless ETOPS approved an operator shall not operate a 2 eng A/C over a route which contains a point further from an adequate aerodrome than 60 minutes in case of a Perf Class A A/C with 20 or more seats or a MTOW of 45360 kgs or more .
The 60 minutes range determined at the one engine inop cruise true airspeed, not execeeding VMO under the following :
1-ISA conditions
2-Level flight for turbojet A/C at FL170 or at the max level which the A/C with one eng inop can climb, and maintain, using the gross rate of climb specified in the AFM, whichever is less .
3-Max cont. thrust on the remaining eng.
4-at an A/C weight not less than that resulting from take off at sea level at max take off weight + all eng climb to opt LRC altitude + all eng cruise at LRC speed until time elaped since take off is equal to the threshold of 60 minutes .
The resulting one eng inop cruise speed and max distance from an adequate airport should be included in the operation manual .
I think for smaller Perf.A A/C's limitation goes to 120 minutes and again I think for Perf.B & C limit is 120 minutes or 300NM whichever is less .
Unless ETOPS approved an operator shall not operate a 2 eng A/C over a route which contains a point further from an adequate aerodrome than 60 minutes in case of a Perf Class A A/C with 20 or more seats or a MTOW of 45360 kgs or more .
The 60 minutes range determined at the one engine inop cruise true airspeed, not execeeding VMO under the following :
1-ISA conditions
2-Level flight for turbojet A/C at FL170 or at the max level which the A/C with one eng inop can climb, and maintain, using the gross rate of climb specified in the AFM, whichever is less .
3-Max cont. thrust on the remaining eng.
4-at an A/C weight not less than that resulting from take off at sea level at max take off weight + all eng climb to opt LRC altitude + all eng cruise at LRC speed until time elaped since take off is equal to the threshold of 60 minutes .
The resulting one eng inop cruise speed and max distance from an adequate airport should be included in the operation manual .
I think for smaller Perf.A A/C's limitation goes to 120 minutes and again I think for Perf.B & C limit is 120 minutes or 300NM whichever is less .
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B732 ETOPS
Yes the B732 was operated ETOPS across the Tasman Sea by Air NZ to all the east coast Aussie destinations. Usually filling in for a B767 or later for the B733. It also had sked services CHC Hobart and in the winter months it flew ZQN SYD ZQN every weekend.
The limiting factor for the ETOPS flights was fuel for ETPD esp when the aircraft was hushkitted to meet stage three noise.
There were 6 B732 in Air NZ were 120 minutes ETOPS approved, and there was a non ETOPS recovery route to remain within the BNE and NLK 1 hour range circles. There were a few restrictions on using this route, such as NLK had to confirm the accuracy of the TAF, NLK radio had to be available within 30 min, and NZ CAA only approved this procedure for a return to NZ.
Trying to find a heavy weight, RVSM, RNP10, Dual GPS, Dual HF, hush kitted ETOPS qualifiyed B737-200 would be one way of spending a free year or two
In answer to your Question .70/280 IAS for a range circle of 350nm (this speed can be anything an operator can put forward and be approved by their CAA and NTOed by Boeing
The limiting factor for the ETOPS flights was fuel for ETPD esp when the aircraft was hushkitted to meet stage three noise.
There were 6 B732 in Air NZ were 120 minutes ETOPS approved, and there was a non ETOPS recovery route to remain within the BNE and NLK 1 hour range circles. There were a few restrictions on using this route, such as NLK had to confirm the accuracy of the TAF, NLK radio had to be available within 30 min, and NZ CAA only approved this procedure for a return to NZ.
Trying to find a heavy weight, RVSM, RNP10, Dual GPS, Dual HF, hush kitted ETOPS qualifiyed B737-200 would be one way of spending a free year or two
In answer to your Question .70/280 IAS for a range circle of 350nm (this speed can be anything an operator can put forward and be approved by their CAA and NTOed by Boeing
Last edited by piontyendforward; 16th May 2006 at 20:44.
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Trying to find a heavy weight, RVSM, RNP10, Dual GPS, Dual HF, hush kitted ETOPS qualifiyed B737-200 would be one way of spending a free year or two
Why was the Norfolk route only approved for return flights ?
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You would have to ask CAA for that but my guess would be that CAA didnt want anything but a fully servicable ETOPS aircraft leaving the main maintenence base to an outstation maint base?
