No SID or Omni-directional departure
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No SID or Omni-directional departure
Recently flown into an airfield with no SIDs and no published omni directional departure. Fortunatly it was CAVOK.
If the cloud base was below the MSA how can you legaly depart? Is it permissable/legal to follow the published go around for that runway during the departure and go into the hold until you are able to climb above the MSA and then depart?
Never come across this before...
If the cloud base was below the MSA how can you legaly depart? Is it permissable/legal to follow the published go around for that runway during the departure and go into the hold until you are able to climb above the MSA and then depart?
Never come across this before...
Last edited by ifleeplanes; 13th Nov 2005 at 19:34.
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Become more familiar with other 'second hand' information available other than the MSA.
If there is a One Engine Inoperative (OEI) escape route for the runway, fly it (with all engines of course) at best gradient performance. This should be well above the gradients allowed for in One Engine Inoperative operations.
If the aerodrome has a prescribed instrument approach, then there will be a Circling Minimum. Maintain Runway Track and best gradient of climb performance until reaching the Circling minimum. Turn Left or Right as appropriate to a downwind track, and stay within the Circling Area until reaching MSA minus 500 feet. It will be necessary for you to be familiar with the dimensions and prohibited sectors of the circling area. It will be necessary to establish Radio Nav and/or GPS fixes to ensure remaining within the area. By all means, use the highest performance category circling area, e.g. use Cat C or Cat D circling areas rather than 'your own'. Be sure to know, and allow for your turning radius.
If the airport has a runway aligned approach for landing in the opposite direction to your Takeoff, back track the ILS, VOR/DME, or NDB procedure, staying above the Glide Slope or restrictive steps. Your all engines gradient should be better than 5% (3°), and unless the approach gradient is significantly steeper than this, you have no problem.
If the airport has a DME arrival procedure, fly this in reverse, being careful to allow sufficient turn radius allowance for a turn-back if achieving a step is impossible.
If the holding fix is located within the circling area (common), stay in the circling area as earlier described until MHA minus 500 feet, and enter the holding pattern for further climb to MSA.
(PANS-OPS obstacle clearance requirements during departure climb are less than the standard 1000 feet allowed for in MSA or MHA, generally a little less than 400 feet. Using MSA and MHA minus 500 feet as the 'target' simplifies things somewhat).
There's a few ideas, they won't work in all cases, but will work in a great many. Obstacle clearance to MSA is a pilot responsibility, and full use should be made of all available information.
If in doubt, don't go.
Regards,
Old Smokey
If there is a One Engine Inoperative (OEI) escape route for the runway, fly it (with all engines of course) at best gradient performance. This should be well above the gradients allowed for in One Engine Inoperative operations.
If the aerodrome has a prescribed instrument approach, then there will be a Circling Minimum. Maintain Runway Track and best gradient of climb performance until reaching the Circling minimum. Turn Left or Right as appropriate to a downwind track, and stay within the Circling Area until reaching MSA minus 500 feet. It will be necessary for you to be familiar with the dimensions and prohibited sectors of the circling area. It will be necessary to establish Radio Nav and/or GPS fixes to ensure remaining within the area. By all means, use the highest performance category circling area, e.g. use Cat C or Cat D circling areas rather than 'your own'. Be sure to know, and allow for your turning radius.
If the airport has a runway aligned approach for landing in the opposite direction to your Takeoff, back track the ILS, VOR/DME, or NDB procedure, staying above the Glide Slope or restrictive steps. Your all engines gradient should be better than 5% (3°), and unless the approach gradient is significantly steeper than this, you have no problem.
If the airport has a DME arrival procedure, fly this in reverse, being careful to allow sufficient turn radius allowance for a turn-back if achieving a step is impossible.
If the holding fix is located within the circling area (common), stay in the circling area as earlier described until MHA minus 500 feet, and enter the holding pattern for further climb to MSA.
(PANS-OPS obstacle clearance requirements during departure climb are less than the standard 1000 feet allowed for in MSA or MHA, generally a little less than 400 feet. Using MSA and MHA minus 500 feet as the 'target' simplifies things somewhat).
There's a few ideas, they won't work in all cases, but will work in a great many. Obstacle clearance to MSA is a pilot responsibility, and full use should be made of all available information.
If in doubt, don't go.
Regards,
Old Smokey
No SID or omni directional dpearture
England has dozens of airports like this. What class of airspace was it? Surely you can work out a 'safe' altitude; why not ask the airport operator what the local safety altitude is?
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The airfield is Zaragoza in Spain
For Chevvron...thats the whole point...if you re read my post you will see I know the MSA the problem comes when the cloud base is below the MSA and prevents me departing visualy. I have 200 people sat behind me so I kinda want to do it right...
Jeppesen states that
"Where obstacles do not permit development of and omnidirectional procedure it is necessary to/;
a. Fly a departure route; or
b. Ensure that ceiling and visibility will permit obstacles to be avoided by visual means"
For Chevvron...thats the whole point...if you re read my post you will see I know the MSA the problem comes when the cloud base is below the MSA and prevents me departing visualy. I have 200 people sat behind me so I kinda want to do it right...
Jeppesen states that
"Where obstacles do not permit development of and omnidirectional procedure it is necessary to/;
a. Fly a departure route; or
b. Ensure that ceiling and visibility will permit obstacles to be avoided by visual means"
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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My (oldish - 19/7/02) Jepp charts show 6 SIDs for each of R12 and 30. If all else fails, there are approach plates for both with go-round profiles. Both g/a's go back to the NDB hold where you can safely climb to MSA if you cannot find the SIDs and have to 'make up' a departure to save life and limb. My airfield brief says expect 'procedural', radar there but not always available.
If this is a commercial flight, your operator is required to provide you with the required charts? Who sent you there to collect 200 folk with no plates?
Did you have aerodrome performance charts with OEI procedures......................?
If this is a commercial flight, your operator is required to provide you with the required charts? Who sent you there to collect 200 folk with no plates?
Did you have aerodrome performance charts with OEI procedures......................?
