Spiral Approach????
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2001
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From: Area 52
Spiral Approach????
http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*77634924!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pacflyer/nov5-2005/Nn-52-falling-out-of.html
Commercial airlines may soon be able to land at 8,000 more U.S. airports because of research involving Air Force test pilots - but there's a hitch.
Using specialized equipment, researchers collected flight data of different C-17 landings. They first measured the noise made by aircraft using a straight-in approach, typical of commercial airliner landings.
Another landing tested was the spiral descent, known by military members who have flown into a combat zone. This involved research measuring the noise made by a C-17 as it spiraled down over a landing site, much like a hawk looking for prey.
If the research is applied, no longer will aircraft be restricted from landing at smaller airports because of the excessive noise aircraft make upon landing, according to Dennis Eckenrod, an American Airlines MD-80 captain participating in the study. However, there is the issue of scaring the hell out of the passengers as their airliner spirals down out of the sky directly over an airport.
And where will the Final Approach Fix be? And where do they intercept the glideslope in bad weather?
Apparently those questions are yet to be answered.
After researchers collected the data by using 17 microphones covering about 15 square miles positioned on Rogers Dry Lakebed, they determined the spiral landing approach reduced aircraft noise within acceptable bounds of most U.S. airports (except for all that screaming coming from the back).
"An aircraft that could utilize the shorter runways of smaller regional and community airports could bring commercial air travel to approximately 97 percent of the U.S. population living within one-half hour of an airport," said John Zuk, NASA Extreme Short Takeoff and Landing Vehicle Section manager at Ames in Moffett Field, Calif.
"Preliminary results indicate that theÉ approaches will concentrate the noise footprint into a narrow area, and that the flight can be conducted safely with the commercial aircraft ride quality, Zuk said. The landing approaches were simple and safe, said NASA research pilot Frank Batteas.
"They were flown using the aircraft autopilot and navigation displays," Batteas said. "With some software changes, the aircraft flight director could provide total flight guidance for these approaches."
Eckenrod was onboard the C-17 during the test mission. He evaluated the rate of descent from a civilian pilot's perspective and from the comfort level of an airline passenger. Engineering students and professors from California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo, Calif., and officials from Northrop Grumman are also participating in the study.
But let's be realistic. Despite all the eggheads and advance aeronautical theoreticians studying this "fall out of the sky approach," dropping a fully-loaded 767 from 30,000 feet to the FAF by steeply spiraling down out of the sky is probably going to cause a few heart attacks and some panicked ATC operators the first time it happens.
Commercial airlines may soon be able to land at 8,000 more U.S. airports because of research involving Air Force test pilots - but there's a hitch.
Using specialized equipment, researchers collected flight data of different C-17 landings. They first measured the noise made by aircraft using a straight-in approach, typical of commercial airliner landings.
Another landing tested was the spiral descent, known by military members who have flown into a combat zone. This involved research measuring the noise made by a C-17 as it spiraled down over a landing site, much like a hawk looking for prey.
If the research is applied, no longer will aircraft be restricted from landing at smaller airports because of the excessive noise aircraft make upon landing, according to Dennis Eckenrod, an American Airlines MD-80 captain participating in the study. However, there is the issue of scaring the hell out of the passengers as their airliner spirals down out of the sky directly over an airport.
And where will the Final Approach Fix be? And where do they intercept the glideslope in bad weather?
Apparently those questions are yet to be answered.
After researchers collected the data by using 17 microphones covering about 15 square miles positioned on Rogers Dry Lakebed, they determined the spiral landing approach reduced aircraft noise within acceptable bounds of most U.S. airports (except for all that screaming coming from the back).
"An aircraft that could utilize the shorter runways of smaller regional and community airports could bring commercial air travel to approximately 97 percent of the U.S. population living within one-half hour of an airport," said John Zuk, NASA Extreme Short Takeoff and Landing Vehicle Section manager at Ames in Moffett Field, Calif.
"Preliminary results indicate that theÉ approaches will concentrate the noise footprint into a narrow area, and that the flight can be conducted safely with the commercial aircraft ride quality, Zuk said. The landing approaches were simple and safe, said NASA research pilot Frank Batteas.
"They were flown using the aircraft autopilot and navigation displays," Batteas said. "With some software changes, the aircraft flight director could provide total flight guidance for these approaches."
Eckenrod was onboard the C-17 during the test mission. He evaluated the rate of descent from a civilian pilot's perspective and from the comfort level of an airline passenger. Engineering students and professors from California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo, Calif., and officials from Northrop Grumman are also participating in the study.
But let's be realistic. Despite all the eggheads and advance aeronautical theoreticians studying this "fall out of the sky approach," dropping a fully-loaded 767 from 30,000 feet to the FAF by steeply spiraling down out of the sky is probably going to cause a few heart attacks and some panicked ATC operators the first time it happens.
PPRuNeaholic
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: Cairns FNQ
It's one thing for the military to do this sort of thing on a routine basis. They have to do in war zones, they're trained for it and, most importantly, they're physically fit for it. Their standards of physical fitness would, I imagine, far exceed those of Joe Average Civilian.
Guest
Posts: n/a
On top of it; spiral approaches are being done to survive, not for comfort of the neighboring areas.
If people want to be able to travel, they'll have to accept the noise. Cars also make noise. Busses and trains as well.
Hell, my kids even make more noise than a 747-200 passing overhead!
This society is sliding down the hill into utter stupidity..
If people want to be able to travel, they'll have to accept the noise. Cars also make noise. Busses and trains as well.
Hell, my kids even make more noise than a 747-200 passing overhead!
This society is sliding down the hill into utter stupidity..
ECON cruise, LR cruise...
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 569
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From: MIRSI hold - give or take...
...b'cause the approach path will be so steep that you will get quite an impressive "flare-conversion" of horisontal speed into arresting vertical speed.
Should save you 10% on landing distance required on a good day
Enjoy, chaps
Empty
Should save you 10% on landing distance required on a good day
Enjoy, chaps
Empty
Person Of Interest
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 842
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From: Keystone Heights, Florida
Why don't you ask the Transafrik guys in Angola? They do it every day and night and while it is exciting, it is not for the faint of heart...and how would it work out in an FMS fly by wire a/c? This type of approach requires real airmanship, not just button pushing relying on a computer...
Psychophysiological entity
Joined: Jun 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,383
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From: Walton on the Naze Essex.
So the concept of a stabilized approach being a formula for safe arrivals, is what....put on hold? Or perhaps adapted to a sort of stabilized spiral?
Perhaps modern aircraft could be built with a bias, like Indi cars, but we would have to always screw it down in the same direction.
Sounds like great fun. Foot full of bottom rudder while looking across the NFP's white face...yeah, let's go for it.
Perhaps modern aircraft could be built with a bias, like Indi cars, but we would have to always screw it down in the same direction.
Sounds like great fun. Foot full of bottom rudder while looking across the NFP's white face...yeah, let's go for it.
Resident insomniac
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 61
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From: N 43° 39' 54'' E 7° 12' 53''
Why don't you ask the Transafrik guys in Angola? They do it every day and night and while it is exciting, it is not for the faint of heart...and how would it work out in an FMS fly by wire a/c? This type of approach requires real airmanship, not just button pushing relying on a computer...
I've tried a search here and it came back with a transafrik topic but the link for the video seems long time dead now.
Anybody ?
Short Blunt Shock
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 631
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From: UK
Spiral approaches are worthless tactically - they don't call it the 'spiral of death' for nothing. I will not go into the reasons why on a public forum, but it is now only the Americans who would even think of doing them.
This report looks like utter b0ll0x to me. Can't see how having the aircraft in the overhead for so long can REDUCE noise.
16B
This report looks like utter b0ll0x to me. Can't see how having the aircraft in the overhead for so long can REDUCE noise.
16B
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 308
Likes: 1
From: Australia.
If they are serious about this concept, perhaps they should start building runways in the shape of a doughnut. Then it wouldn't matter which direction you happen to be heading at touchdown.
In fact if you banked the runway like a Nascar circuit, that would allow both main wheels to touch down together while the wings are banked.
Easy!
In fact if you banked the runway like a Nascar circuit, that would allow both main wheels to touch down together while the wings are banked.
Easy!
Last edited by Blip; 10th November 2005 at 20:29.
