WX Radar-avoiding birdstrikes?
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: Flagrant Harbour
Unless you were in the RAF when the answer is a categorical yes and you must have the weather radar on at all times.
If I remember correctly this was more to do with identification by someone with a bigger and better radar. Silly to turn off your wx radar these days and go stealth mode.
If I remember correctly this was more to do with identification by someone with a bigger and better radar. Silly to turn off your wx radar these days and go stealth mode.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
From: down-route
After lining-up on a runway a few days ago, we noticed a bird (a crow, to be precise) walking around on the centreline about 50 yards away. I turned on the weather radar and bombarded the little sod with loads of radiowaves. I can report that absolutely nothing happened. The bird carried on with normal bird ops (ie. walking about and looking for food) for the next minute until we received T/O clearance. Only when we spooled-up and it heard our engine noise did it fly away.
Result of investigation, weather radar doesn't scare birds away.
QED
p.s. Maybe we need a bigger sample size ie. a flock.
Result of investigation, weather radar doesn't scare birds away.
QED
p.s. Maybe we need a bigger sample size ie. a flock.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 3
From: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
There are 2 strands to this thread.
One is the wx or any other kind of radar to deter birds. NO it doesn't work.
The other is to use radar to plot bird movements, either in real-time to give an indication as to where to direct bird-dispersal effort or more usefully to track patterns of behaviour of different species so that habitat management can be modified/improved.
Trying to plot bird movements and then directing resource to their location inevitably ends up with the bird person going to where the birds were 5 minutes ago, not where they are now. There's no replacement for having someone out in the field observing & carrying out dispersal on the spot.
The only real benefit of radar is this latter strategic use. We had a team down from the Central Science Laboratory with their specialist radar. This is quite amazing - it can differentiate between different species and recordings made over a period of days can show where flocks are feeding, loafing, roosting and transiting. We can then try and modify the environment to make it less attractive to that particular species.
We've tried all sorts of scaring devices/techniques over the years. What works for us at civvie and RAF aerodromes is
a) habitat management (about halves the strike rate) and
b)a mixture of distress calls and shell crackers, used by someone properly trained.
The Royal Navy, uniquely, use falconry. This requires a totally different philosophy and dedicated staff to look after the falcons etc. Fascinating stuff.
Cheers,
TheOddOne
One is the wx or any other kind of radar to deter birds. NO it doesn't work.
The other is to use radar to plot bird movements, either in real-time to give an indication as to where to direct bird-dispersal effort or more usefully to track patterns of behaviour of different species so that habitat management can be modified/improved.
Trying to plot bird movements and then directing resource to their location inevitably ends up with the bird person going to where the birds were 5 minutes ago, not where they are now. There's no replacement for having someone out in the field observing & carrying out dispersal on the spot.
The only real benefit of radar is this latter strategic use. We had a team down from the Central Science Laboratory with their specialist radar. This is quite amazing - it can differentiate between different species and recordings made over a period of days can show where flocks are feeding, loafing, roosting and transiting. We can then try and modify the environment to make it less attractive to that particular species.
We've tried all sorts of scaring devices/techniques over the years. What works for us at civvie and RAF aerodromes is
a) habitat management (about halves the strike rate) and
b)a mixture of distress calls and shell crackers, used by someone properly trained.
The Royal Navy, uniquely, use falconry. This requires a totally different philosophy and dedicated staff to look after the falcons etc. Fascinating stuff.
Cheers,
TheOddOne
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
From: wherever I lay my headset
perhaps not entirely relevant but maybe linked? When I was working at an airfield in Germany in the 80s we had new radar installed. Very pleased with our new kit, except every morning we got bllooms of primary radar returns... someone noticed these appeared around sunrise and last 15-20mins... then it was noted they were radiating out from the same points every day, expand and disperse. When the origins of the blooms were plotted they were found to be a series of lakes. Scientific explanation... waterbirds taking off after having roosted for the night.
Joined: Jun 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,698
Likes: 1,304
From: Australia
I kid you not, this really did happen to me. Taxiing a 737-200 at Nausori, Fiji, this bloody great hawk type bird kept level with us slowly flapping its wings and sitting (flying) about 50 feet directly in front of the cockpit. I had the radar at full up tilt but on standby.
We turned the radar on for a few seconds to see what would happen as we too had heard about radar and birds.
It had no apparent effect on the hawk, except as we slowed to do a 180 to line up, the hawk momentarily hovered until it was almost on the windscreen then the cheeky bastard dropped a great load of poop on the radome. And then it flapped slowly away.
We turned the radar on for a few seconds to see what would happen as we too had heard about radar and birds.
It had no apparent effect on the hawk, except as we slowed to do a 180 to line up, the hawk momentarily hovered until it was almost on the windscreen then the cheeky bastard dropped a great load of poop on the radome. And then it flapped slowly away.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
From: Worldwide
If one were to think how many airports have radar, and how many bird strikes occour at airports. And then think of airports that have SSR, PAR, primary, ground, weather radar and still have bird strikes.
How is installing one on an aircraft going to stop you from hitting a bird, if installing one or multiple at an airport cannot keep them away ?
Most new aircraft Wx radars have a unsafe rage of less than 5 meters.
How is installing one on an aircraft going to stop you from hitting a bird, if installing one or multiple at an airport cannot keep them away ?
Most new aircraft Wx radars have a unsafe rage of less than 5 meters.
