Tbone in ear headsets
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Tbone in ear headsets
Hi All,
Anyone out there using this very natty looking headset at the moment?? The ad in FI (p133 7-13 June) caught my eye and have checked out the website. It all looks quite impressive but I'd like to get some 'real life' feedback before shelling out close to 1K USDs. Instead of using a conventional microphone it uses a 'bone conducive' one.
Thanks in advance,
Anyone out there using this very natty looking headset at the moment?? The ad in FI (p133 7-13 June) caught my eye and have checked out the website. It all looks quite impressive but I'd like to get some 'real life' feedback before shelling out close to 1K USDs. Instead of using a conventional microphone it uses a 'bone conducive' one.
Thanks in advance,
On a related subject, friend of mine lost his licence medically a few years back. He was captain of an A320 and had his head-set on when a ground crew member plugged in down below to the intercom socket. A huge decibels flash of noise went through the pilots headset which permanently damaged his hearing. It may be a one-off event - but what a disastrous one at that.
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That's a bit overly pedantic really! dB used in relation to sound levels is conventionally understood to mean SPL relative to the threshold of human hearing, A-weighted. So, a normal conversation is around 50dB while Concorde with reheat from an adjacent taxiway was about 160dB.
Permanent hearing damage occurs around 150dB, or quite a bit lower if sustained.
Rob
Permanent hearing damage occurs around 150dB, or quite a bit lower if sustained.
Rob
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Quarefella,
Although I am not an aviator, I use these moulded type ear inserts for noise protection.
They are very comfortable, and much less of a hassle than normal shell type ear defenders and do not affect normal conversational hearing.
I know that the bone type mic technology is cutting edge, it is the same systen that the F1 drivers use to communicate with the pits. Hope that helps.
Btw any noise over 85dBA can, over a prolonged period, cause long term hearing damage.
Toothpic
Although I am not an aviator, I use these moulded type ear inserts for noise protection.
They are very comfortable, and much less of a hassle than normal shell type ear defenders and do not affect normal conversational hearing.
I know that the bone type mic technology is cutting edge, it is the same systen that the F1 drivers use to communicate with the pits. Hope that helps.
Btw any noise over 85dBA can, over a prolonged period, cause long term hearing damage.
Toothpic
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Can's answer your question specifically, but I used to have a hands free set up from Jabra on my mobile phone about 5 years ago. That had an in ear microphone and worked fine. Occasionally people would suggest that my speach wasn't as clear as a normal hand set, but they only used to comment when I explained why I had asked for thier opinion.
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I saw it at the Dubai Airshow. I heard the guy talking in it, when I was wearing a conventional headset, and it was crystal clear. One good thing, you don't get the ssssss sounds nor inhalation/exhalation sounds, but if you are eating and have intercom, it will go through the system (I have heard).
Another good thing is you can keep it on when donning oxygen mask. Since it takes the sound of your speech from the ear directly, you don't need to use the Oxy mike, and sound is still as clear as with no mask (should be).
But no, I haven't tried it. I couldn't, because each set is made to fit one pair of ears, so you cannot try it before you have one made for you specifically. You have to rely on people who have bought it to rate it. I believe certain airlines have it on test?
I am just as curious myself. Presently, I use earplugs, ones with a hole in the middle, so you can wear them under headset and still hear what you need. For 8 EUR a set, it is a splendid alternative to expensive and batteryconsuming ANR headsets.
Another good thing is you can keep it on when donning oxygen mask. Since it takes the sound of your speech from the ear directly, you don't need to use the Oxy mike, and sound is still as clear as with no mask (should be).
But no, I haven't tried it. I couldn't, because each set is made to fit one pair of ears, so you cannot try it before you have one made for you specifically. You have to rely on people who have bought it to rate it. I believe certain airlines have it on test?
I am just as curious myself. Presently, I use earplugs, ones with a hole in the middle, so you can wear them under headset and still hear what you need. For 8 EUR a set, it is a splendid alternative to expensive and batteryconsuming ANR headsets.
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Kinda curious about that kind of headset myself. Using an old Sennheiser HME 45 (without ANR) that is company provided but isn't really comfortable. Was thinking about buying my own headset, either a Telex 850 ANR or this tbone thing. The latter one looks pretty good and solves several things at once but the price is a pretty strong argument against it, the telex one is basicly half the price.
So if anyone could provide some comments his experience with this tbone headset i would certainly appreciate it.
So if anyone could provide some comments his experience with this tbone headset i would certainly appreciate it.
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tbone Aviation Headset
I am the developer of the tbone Aviation Headset and somebody turned my attention to this forum and this specific thread.
I will be happy to answer any questions users of this forum may have, but I will also try not to mis-use this thread for marketing purposes.
The story behind the headset is briefly this:
In 1999 I worked at a Danish company who held the patent of the special in-ear-bone conducting microphone that was developed to be used with hand held VHF radios.
In an attempt to widen the product range I contacted some pilots in CPH, and from their input I designed the tbone Aviation Headset (originally developed under the name Invisio Aviation Headset).
The product was thoroughly tested in SAS (15 pilots) and Delta Airlines (22 pilots) - all on the B737.
The tests were positive and 'Prove of Concept'.
As the next step was TSO qualification, the project was turned over to Terma (www.terma.com) who now hold all rights to the tbone Aviation Headset.
The headset acquired the ETSO 57a & 58a in October 2005 and we expect the FAA LODA (Letter of Design Approval) very shortly (before end of April 06).
The main concerns pilots have before purchasing the headset are:
- The price ($995)
- The microphone
- The comfort
The price of $995 is mainly due to the fact, that this is a customized and hand made product.
The manufacturing process is very similar to that of hearing aids with two major differences:
1) The special bone pick up system is expensive and requires highly skilled labor to install.
2) The durability is much higher than that of a hearing aid as the headset must meet the tough DO-160 environmental criteria to qualify for the ETSO. This involves a very demanding drop test where the headset is dropped from 1 meter to concrete floor 12 times in first normal indoor temperature, then heated to 65 degree Celsius and dropped again 12 times and finally frozen to minus 55 degree Celsius and dropped 12 times.
The headset must be un-effected by this - try this with a hearing aid!
Also please compare the tbone headset price to the price of two custom molded hearing aids, and in this comparishment the tbone is actually very cheap!
The other concern is the microphone. Does it sound different? How about the readability?
As part of the ETSO certification we were required to have a certified testing company perform an intelligibility test.
This was done using 10 pilots equipped with a tbone headset.
The setup was a virtual cockpit with a calibrated sound environment of a B737-700. The sound was measured and recorded on a flight from CPH to STR. The 1 minute with the highest density of noise was then played back continuously in the virtual cockpit at calibrated level.
At the listening point a virtual tower was build in the same way using sounds from CPH tower.
The pilots then read a list of 50 different words that the listener had to recognize and write down. Each pilot read from his own list and no list contained the same words.
In the test the tbone was compared with a high quality headset.
The tbone would qualify if more than 80% of the words were perceived correct. The 80% would ensure 99% context perception.
The reference headset scored 95% and the tbone headset scored 93%.
It was also established (although not a part of the official test and therefore not reported) that if the traditional headsets boom mike was not 100% correctly placed the intelligibility were poorer than the tbone due to lower signal to noise ratio or distortion.
Having said that, it is true that the sound of the voice is different. Many report the sound as 'speaking in a bucket'. It is a hollow sound.
But readable!
During my many hours on jump seat I have heard many transmissions where the voice sounded 'natural' but was almost complete unreadable if the mike was not positioned correctly (angle and distance from mouth).
On the comfort issue - I know there are some people who cannot have anything inserted in their ear. These people tend to get rash or irritations very easily - maybe because they remove the natural protection - the ear wax - with a cotton pin each morning.
We have not yet seen any reports from users with this problem.
Another comfort issue with ear pieces is the fact that the user hears his 'inner' voice much louder. Try putting a finger in each ear and then speak - then you will know the sensation.
But this is something the users get used to very quickly - especially in a noisy environment, and especially pilots who are used to the 'side-tone' in their headset.
In Terma we believe this headset has a few advantages compared with a traditional boom headset but as I started this post by renouncing all marketing efforts you must turn to the products website to read about that.
One factor that many pilots (but not all!) report is that they like the headset not having Active Noise Reduction, but solely rely on passive reduction.
They report that they appreciate the fact that they can actually hear all sounds - only at a reduced level. They report that using their hearing sense is vital to their control of the flight.
Others - those who loves ANR headsets - does not appreciate the level of noise reduction in the tbone. As they can actaully hear everything that goes on around them they seem to think that the noise reduction is too little.
One last issue - we cannot make this headset to everybody! Some people have very narrow ear canals that will not support the space needed for the microphone. We estimate 5% of the population will not be able to use this headset.
If you have questions please post them here in this thread as I am sure other interested pilots may want to know the answers.
We have a few airlines testing the headset around the world (mainly in US, Europe and South East Asia).
These evaluations are conducted by pilots selected by the airline.
The evaluations are free of cost (paid by Terma), contains no buy-obligations and they usually runs for 3-4 month.
If you are a CP or a TP you may contact me on [email protected] if you want to know more about these evaluations.
Sincerely
Jan Thostrup
Sales Manager, Audio Systems
www.tboneaviation.com
I will be happy to answer any questions users of this forum may have, but I will also try not to mis-use this thread for marketing purposes.
The story behind the headset is briefly this:
In 1999 I worked at a Danish company who held the patent of the special in-ear-bone conducting microphone that was developed to be used with hand held VHF radios.
In an attempt to widen the product range I contacted some pilots in CPH, and from their input I designed the tbone Aviation Headset (originally developed under the name Invisio Aviation Headset).
The product was thoroughly tested in SAS (15 pilots) and Delta Airlines (22 pilots) - all on the B737.
The tests were positive and 'Prove of Concept'.
As the next step was TSO qualification, the project was turned over to Terma (www.terma.com) who now hold all rights to the tbone Aviation Headset.
The headset acquired the ETSO 57a & 58a in October 2005 and we expect the FAA LODA (Letter of Design Approval) very shortly (before end of April 06).
The main concerns pilots have before purchasing the headset are:
- The price ($995)
- The microphone
- The comfort
The price of $995 is mainly due to the fact, that this is a customized and hand made product.
The manufacturing process is very similar to that of hearing aids with two major differences:
1) The special bone pick up system is expensive and requires highly skilled labor to install.
2) The durability is much higher than that of a hearing aid as the headset must meet the tough DO-160 environmental criteria to qualify for the ETSO. This involves a very demanding drop test where the headset is dropped from 1 meter to concrete floor 12 times in first normal indoor temperature, then heated to 65 degree Celsius and dropped again 12 times and finally frozen to minus 55 degree Celsius and dropped 12 times.
The headset must be un-effected by this - try this with a hearing aid!
Also please compare the tbone headset price to the price of two custom molded hearing aids, and in this comparishment the tbone is actually very cheap!
The other concern is the microphone. Does it sound different? How about the readability?
As part of the ETSO certification we were required to have a certified testing company perform an intelligibility test.
This was done using 10 pilots equipped with a tbone headset.
The setup was a virtual cockpit with a calibrated sound environment of a B737-700. The sound was measured and recorded on a flight from CPH to STR. The 1 minute with the highest density of noise was then played back continuously in the virtual cockpit at calibrated level.
At the listening point a virtual tower was build in the same way using sounds from CPH tower.
The pilots then read a list of 50 different words that the listener had to recognize and write down. Each pilot read from his own list and no list contained the same words.
In the test the tbone was compared with a high quality headset.
The tbone would qualify if more than 80% of the words were perceived correct. The 80% would ensure 99% context perception.
The reference headset scored 95% and the tbone headset scored 93%.
It was also established (although not a part of the official test and therefore not reported) that if the traditional headsets boom mike was not 100% correctly placed the intelligibility were poorer than the tbone due to lower signal to noise ratio or distortion.
Having said that, it is true that the sound of the voice is different. Many report the sound as 'speaking in a bucket'. It is a hollow sound.
But readable!
During my many hours on jump seat I have heard many transmissions where the voice sounded 'natural' but was almost complete unreadable if the mike was not positioned correctly (angle and distance from mouth).
On the comfort issue - I know there are some people who cannot have anything inserted in their ear. These people tend to get rash or irritations very easily - maybe because they remove the natural protection - the ear wax - with a cotton pin each morning.
We have not yet seen any reports from users with this problem.
Another comfort issue with ear pieces is the fact that the user hears his 'inner' voice much louder. Try putting a finger in each ear and then speak - then you will know the sensation.
But this is something the users get used to very quickly - especially in a noisy environment, and especially pilots who are used to the 'side-tone' in their headset.
In Terma we believe this headset has a few advantages compared with a traditional boom headset but as I started this post by renouncing all marketing efforts you must turn to the products website to read about that.
One factor that many pilots (but not all!) report is that they like the headset not having Active Noise Reduction, but solely rely on passive reduction.
They report that they appreciate the fact that they can actually hear all sounds - only at a reduced level. They report that using their hearing sense is vital to their control of the flight.
Others - those who loves ANR headsets - does not appreciate the level of noise reduction in the tbone. As they can actaully hear everything that goes on around them they seem to think that the noise reduction is too little.
One last issue - we cannot make this headset to everybody! Some people have very narrow ear canals that will not support the space needed for the microphone. We estimate 5% of the population will not be able to use this headset.
If you have questions please post them here in this thread as I am sure other interested pilots may want to know the answers.
We have a few airlines testing the headset around the world (mainly in US, Europe and South East Asia).
These evaluations are conducted by pilots selected by the airline.
The evaluations are free of cost (paid by Terma), contains no buy-obligations and they usually runs for 3-4 month.
If you are a CP or a TP you may contact me on [email protected] if you want to know more about these evaluations.
Sincerely
Jan Thostrup
Sales Manager, Audio Systems
www.tboneaviation.com
Last edited by McJanus; 24th Apr 2006 at 11:27.
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Hello Jan,
I read with interest all the material on your website regarding the tbone Aviation Headset, but could not find any answers to the following questions I have:
DD
I read with interest all the material on your website regarding the tbone Aviation Headset, but could not find any answers to the following questions I have:
- Is the headset battery powered? The inclusion of an amplifier module suggests to me that some form of power source is required. What type of power source does the headset use? How long does it last? What happens when the powersource runs out? Will the headset still function in some fashion, or does a spare battery/headset need to be carried?
- Is the output power of the loudspeakers limited in any way? ie. Will the amplifier module prevent hearing-loss inducing levels of sound from being injected into the user's ear?
- What is the level of passive attenuation that the headset achieves? I understand that there is a speech frequency acoustic filter built in to the design, but how would hearing protection compare to say a set of ear muffs or standard ear plugs (noting the brochure shows pilots conducting walk-arounds wearing the headset) ? Would the level of noise attenuation make the headset suitable for noisy cockpits, eg light aircraft ?
DD
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Hi DD,
1) There is no battery - the headset works on the BIAS current from the radio/intercom system.
If this power source turns off, the radio and intercom will not work - and there will be no need for headsets.
2) The loudspeakers output is in accordance with the EASA/FAA TSO. In practice this means that you will need to have the volume control on the audio panel turned to 2/3 of maximum to have a comfortable normal level.
The headset does not have a build-in limiter, but the loudspeaker is not able to deliver enough power to kill off your hearing.
3) The passive noise reduction of the ear pieces reduces the noise with 5-10dB below 1,5KHz and 35dB above 6KHz.
This is opposite when compared to ANR headsets that will deliver a level of noise reduction at 10-15dB up to 1,5KHz and less above.
When wearing the tbone Aviation Headset you can hear everything at a reduces (safe) level.
When wearing an ANR headset you may feel you operate in complete silence.
You can use the tbone as hearing protection when doing a walk around, but it is not as effective as a cup-based specialized hearing protector!
When you're close to the APU, you shuld cover your ear with your hands as extra protection - as I am sure you would do if you were outside without any hearing protection or just the 'yellow foam plugs'.
Is this headset suitable for light aircrafts?
Well yes and no.
If you use the tbone with an extra cup-based hearing protection it will work very well!
As a stand alone hearing protection I would say no.
Having said that, we are in the process of having professional audiologist (who are also GA pilots) testing the tbone with various cup based hearing protections. The initial results are:
- Lower weight compared to David Clark (less than half the weight)
- Perfect noise reduction
- No batteri operation
- No noise in microphone TX (mike is out of the ambient noise)
So it seems very suitable in a single piston engine A/C when you add the extra protection.
We are also testing the tbone in a Robinson R22 rotor craft.
The results are very similar.
Hope that answered your questions!
Jan
1) There is no battery - the headset works on the BIAS current from the radio/intercom system.
If this power source turns off, the radio and intercom will not work - and there will be no need for headsets.
2) The loudspeakers output is in accordance with the EASA/FAA TSO. In practice this means that you will need to have the volume control on the audio panel turned to 2/3 of maximum to have a comfortable normal level.
The headset does not have a build-in limiter, but the loudspeaker is not able to deliver enough power to kill off your hearing.
3) The passive noise reduction of the ear pieces reduces the noise with 5-10dB below 1,5KHz and 35dB above 6KHz.
This is opposite when compared to ANR headsets that will deliver a level of noise reduction at 10-15dB up to 1,5KHz and less above.
When wearing the tbone Aviation Headset you can hear everything at a reduces (safe) level.
When wearing an ANR headset you may feel you operate in complete silence.
You can use the tbone as hearing protection when doing a walk around, but it is not as effective as a cup-based specialized hearing protector!
When you're close to the APU, you shuld cover your ear with your hands as extra protection - as I am sure you would do if you were outside without any hearing protection or just the 'yellow foam plugs'.
Is this headset suitable for light aircrafts?
Well yes and no.
If you use the tbone with an extra cup-based hearing protection it will work very well!
As a stand alone hearing protection I would say no.
Having said that, we are in the process of having professional audiologist (who are also GA pilots) testing the tbone with various cup based hearing protections. The initial results are:
- Lower weight compared to David Clark (less than half the weight)
- Perfect noise reduction
- No batteri operation
- No noise in microphone TX (mike is out of the ambient noise)
So it seems very suitable in a single piston engine A/C when you add the extra protection.
We are also testing the tbone in a Robinson R22 rotor craft.
The results are very similar.
Hope that answered your questions!
Jan
