Airbus to stage massive drill to test exits -- and humans -- on giant plane
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I post as many anti Boeing stuff here as Airbus. Don't want to see it fail. I am just doing what this forum was set up for and that is to report news. This article came from the Wall Street Journal. Generally news worthy rag.
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747f
could you direct us to the antiBoeing stuff? Do you post under a different name? Can't say I have noticed and the search engine is not cooperating at the moment.
Regardless of whether they intend stretching the 747A upper deck, since I believe 380 was not allowed do a "separate deck" test then neither should the 747A - which will mean the upper deck will need to be tested.
Like I said, better start hoping they pass.
could you direct us to the antiBoeing stuff? Do you post under a different name? Can't say I have noticed and the search engine is not cooperating at the moment.
Regardless of whether they intend stretching the 747A upper deck, since I believe 380 was not allowed do a "separate deck" test then neither should the 747A - which will mean the upper deck will need to be tested.
Like I said, better start hoping they pass.
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You may not find direct specific threads but my comments are there.
Frankly, I think airbus has their strong points and Boeing has theirs. Wonder what a colaberation aircraft would look like?
Frankly, I think airbus has their strong points and Boeing has theirs. Wonder what a colaberation aircraft would look like?
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used2flyboeing
If I where you I would stick to commenting on something I actually knew something about.
The TGV system is a very successful design that has been exported to several countries around the world. I believe it will even come to your shores pretty soon. And by the way it is not a European programme, but a French one.
The Concorde, well another groundbreaking European design well ahead of its time. But then again not something you would know anything about. I mean, you with your "extra human on the Concorde flight deck to work the throttles"
The Channel Tunnel, well the facts speaks for themselves.
BUT, AGAIN, this is an example of a too big to fail European programme ....like the TGV... like the Concorde... like the Chunnel ...
The TGV system is a very successful design that has been exported to several countries around the world. I believe it will even come to your shores pretty soon. And by the way it is not a European programme, but a French one.
The Concorde, well another groundbreaking European design well ahead of its time. But then again not something you would know anything about. I mean, you with your "extra human on the Concorde flight deck to work the throttles"
The Channel Tunnel, well the facts speaks for themselves.
- 112 million people have travelled through the Channel Tunnel on Eurotunnel's passenger shuttle service since it opened in 1994 and until 2000.
- Eurotunnel shuttle locomotives are the most powerful locomotives in the world Generating up to 7MW (7500hp) they haul trains of up to 2,400 tonnes at speeds of up to 140kph.
- Eurotunnel is the market leader for cross-Channel travel - the choice of 2.3 million motorists and 1.3 million truckers in 2003.
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If I did that then post a link to the thread.
What you dont understand is I am just doing what this forum is about.....reporting aviation news. If it was not newsworthy, Danny or some other mod would have yanked it long ago.
I often wonder if your distaste is only preceeded by your own doubt????
What you dont understand is I am just doing what this forum is about.....reporting aviation news. If it was not newsworthy, Danny or some other mod would have yanked it long ago.
I often wonder if your distaste is only preceeded by your own doubt????
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What you dont understand is I am just doing what this forum is about.....reporting aviation news.
There is a common theme to your aviation news reporting. It wasn't made over here.
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If you look I have been quite vocal about the new composite airplane. Fuselage out of composite is okay, wings and nacelles are a mistake. there I said it again.
FYI - If you think I am bad you need to talk to 2 year old Focal. Ask him what he thinks of the A380 and he always responds "Messy-poop, very Messy".
ps. my comments on the RR engines is not about there operational quality. In fact I believe they get better gas mileage than their PW and GE counter parts. The only problem they have is they make to much damn noise on approach. Anybody in this business knows that noise can make a perfectly good airplane obsolete. Just ask SAS.
FYI - If you think I am bad you need to talk to 2 year old Focal. Ask him what he thinks of the A380 and he always responds "Messy-poop, very Messy".
ps. my comments on the RR engines is not about there operational quality. In fact I believe they get better gas mileage than their PW and GE counter parts. The only problem they have is they make to much damn noise on approach. Anybody in this business knows that noise can make a perfectly good airplane obsolete. Just ask SAS.
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OK. Enough.
We get quite enough rubbish about the differences between Megajets and HairBrush without all the "You said this" "No I didn't" "Did" Didn't" "DID" "DIDN'T" nonsense.
In future, unless people are type rated on both an Airbus type and a Boeing type larger than a Stearman and more modern than a 377, don't bother to enter the debate.
Let's keep it professional, informed and informative please folks.
We get quite enough rubbish about the differences between Megajets and HairBrush without all the "You said this" "No I didn't" "Did" Didn't" "DID" "DIDN'T" nonsense.
In future, unless people are type rated on both an Airbus type and a Boeing type larger than a Stearman and more modern than a 377, don't bother to enter the debate.
Let's keep it professional, informed and informative please folks.
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Clarence - when I said to big to fail Euro programs - I was alluding to the socio-economic differences between the US and other places that affect the viability of certain programmes: Im not saying it is better over here, Im simply saying if it doesnt have a business case that closes - it will not get built in the US..
The TGV system will NOT come to our shores pretty soon - unless the cost of petroleum regulates internal combustion out of existance. In the US it is cheaper & faster to take an airplane for distances OVER 300 miles. For those in the US distances UNDER 300 miles one would use a car. THis is because our population and industrial centers did not grow up around trains. Therefore, the costs to integrate trains into the fabric of urban sprawl in the US is prohibitvely large. AMTRAC has been a looser program for years - all the while on public subsidy.
The Concorde is certainly a groundbreaking European design, well ahead of its time. So was the SST - but because it had to have a business case that "closed", and it became apparent that it wasnt because of emissions and noise, it was cut. THe Concorde never made a dime over its life time - but was an exciting, but expensive flagship.
The US had a stake in the development of the Chunnel - the rotary cutter was made behind Boeing in Kent Washington
THe A380 is basically the same aircraft the McDonnell Douglas had on the drawing board - the MD12. In fact McDonnell Douglas has a design patent on the A380 configuration - delta winglets and all.. Even the A380's Main Landing gear is virtually identical to that what was on the MD12.. - but, this business case did not close under Douglas & Boeing & hence its not on the line up.
The TGV system will NOT come to our shores pretty soon - unless the cost of petroleum regulates internal combustion out of existance. In the US it is cheaper & faster to take an airplane for distances OVER 300 miles. For those in the US distances UNDER 300 miles one would use a car. THis is because our population and industrial centers did not grow up around trains. Therefore, the costs to integrate trains into the fabric of urban sprawl in the US is prohibitvely large. AMTRAC has been a looser program for years - all the while on public subsidy.
The Concorde is certainly a groundbreaking European design, well ahead of its time. So was the SST - but because it had to have a business case that "closed", and it became apparent that it wasnt because of emissions and noise, it was cut. THe Concorde never made a dime over its life time - but was an exciting, but expensive flagship.
The US had a stake in the development of the Chunnel - the rotary cutter was made behind Boeing in Kent Washington
THe A380 is basically the same aircraft the McDonnell Douglas had on the drawing board - the MD12. In fact McDonnell Douglas has a design patent on the A380 configuration - delta winglets and all.. Even the A380's Main Landing gear is virtually identical to that what was on the MD12.. - but, this business case did not close under Douglas & Boeing & hence its not on the line up.
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Couldnt find anything inflammatory about 747FOCAL's original post...why the hostile reaction?
I wish Airbus the best of luck...I dont like their aircraft but they are innovative and pushing the envelope in design and experimentation and thats gutsy and deserves praise.
Personally I wouldnt want to travel with 800 other people..thats twice the boarding time of a 744 and what if theres a no-show and his bag is buried in the bowels of the aft cargo..or if the flight is delayed and angry passengers demand disembarcation and then you've got to do the whole damn thing again..logistically it will prove a nightmare and very few airports will cope..the quality of staff coordinating the boarding procedure will have to be good and when was the last time you saw that?Most are distinctly average and boarding on a plane the size of a 767 can sometimes go wrong and prove laborious and downright painful...
Aesthetically,the plane is not a success...the lines just arent right on the thing...its profile is not too bad but front on its plain ugly...is that important?Probably not.The cabin will be to a good standard if their previous aircraft are anything to go by,but will pale in comparison to the luxury of the 7E7...Boeing,having built the "perfect" plane in terms of flightdeck ergonomics(the 777 or 744 take your pick),will now turn their attention to the cabin in the 7E7 and make up for lost ground..
as for certification,Airbus will get their 550 rating no problem...theres too many EU subsidies in it for that not to happen...if they get the JAR cert for more that will only prove that economics speaks louder than safety in aviation...something which we all know I guess.
I wish Airbus the best of luck...I dont like their aircraft but they are innovative and pushing the envelope in design and experimentation and thats gutsy and deserves praise.
Personally I wouldnt want to travel with 800 other people..thats twice the boarding time of a 744 and what if theres a no-show and his bag is buried in the bowels of the aft cargo..or if the flight is delayed and angry passengers demand disembarcation and then you've got to do the whole damn thing again..logistically it will prove a nightmare and very few airports will cope..the quality of staff coordinating the boarding procedure will have to be good and when was the last time you saw that?Most are distinctly average and boarding on a plane the size of a 767 can sometimes go wrong and prove laborious and downright painful...
Aesthetically,the plane is not a success...the lines just arent right on the thing...its profile is not too bad but front on its plain ugly...is that important?Probably not.The cabin will be to a good standard if their previous aircraft are anything to go by,but will pale in comparison to the luxury of the 7E7...Boeing,having built the "perfect" plane in terms of flightdeck ergonomics(the 777 or 744 take your pick),will now turn their attention to the cabin in the 7E7 and make up for lost ground..
as for certification,Airbus will get their 550 rating no problem...theres too many EU subsidies in it for that not to happen...if they get the JAR cert for more that will only prove that economics speaks louder than safety in aviation...something which we all know I guess.
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that will only prove that economics speaks louder than safety in aviation...something which we all know I guess.
On the other hand, you're correct in identifying that sometimes things can happen to f**k up the boarding process (amongst other things which could just as easily delay a flight!), but then humans will be humans.. regardless of how many are in one place at a time.
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Rananim said:
[ I wish Airbus the best of luck...I dont like their aircraft but they are innovative and pushing the envelope in design and experimentation and thats gutsy and deserves praise ] The A380 is definitiely an ambitious airplane - particularly given the fact that it is literally almost totally hogged out of solid stock - with this project AIRBUS has acquired an expertise in high speed machining & the proven GLARE technology - now, how are you going to repair your integral wingskins & wingrib hogouts & and holes in glass reinforced aluminum ?? ?
[ Personally I wouldnt want to travel with 800 other people ]
The superlarge aircraft is a risky business strategy in an economy of unpredictable load factors - further you need alot of people to close the business case - if anyone "steals" the first class or business traveler - god help the A380 ..who could that be, well possibly the other folks in France, Dassault with their super sonic business jet, or the folks in Los Angeles at Northrup who have a Super Sonic BBJ in the wind tunnel two years ago .. but, UPS & FEDEX will buy them as bulk freighters .., like they did the MD-11
The wonderful 757 DIED because although it was the best balance of power, safety, reliability and handling, the airlines learned to not like it because it was too damn hard to get turned around - hence it ended up owning the charter market where nobody cares about turn times ..
[Aesthetically,the plane is not a success...the lines just arent right on the thing...its profile is not too bad but front on its plain ugly...is that important?] The A380 IS DESIGNED TO FIT in todays airports - hence its "fatboy" lines
[ The cabin will be to a good standard if their previous aircraft are anything to go by] AIRBUS has not gotten their airconditioning right - even on the newer models - hence the purser stations crammed with stripchart recorders on SAS A340-300s & instrumentation & heater galley floors - to compensate for the cold strata in the cabin
[ but will pale in comparison to the luxury of the 7E7] Cattle class - is - cattle class, what ever AIRBUS OR BOEING cook up interior wise - the airlines will destroy looking through their seat density glasses
[...Boeing,having built the "perfect" plane in terms of flightdeck ergonomics ] FOrget the "perfect" flight deck - the 7E7 is an unbelievable step forward in terms of systems & structures for conservative - stoggy as hell Boeing - in terms of technology - so much so - Im not convinced that Boeing will even build it. Must be a sales job before they spin off their commercial division to someone like General Motors OR Ford - IE someone who are masters at beating up their suppliers ..IE maybe another "Sonic Cruiser" .. but they do have a nice composite prototype body section .. If they do build it & fuel prices stay where they are - airlines will run from tin birds ...they wont have any choice .. AIRBUS will be 4 years behind the Boeing in terms if IR&D & will never catch up .. It will be the TRISTAR story all over .. regardless of how good it was - it was too late & the inferior DC-10 sucked up the market share..
[ I wish Airbus the best of luck...I dont like their aircraft but they are innovative and pushing the envelope in design and experimentation and thats gutsy and deserves praise ] The A380 is definitiely an ambitious airplane - particularly given the fact that it is literally almost totally hogged out of solid stock - with this project AIRBUS has acquired an expertise in high speed machining & the proven GLARE technology - now, how are you going to repair your integral wingskins & wingrib hogouts & and holes in glass reinforced aluminum ?? ?
[ Personally I wouldnt want to travel with 800 other people ]
The superlarge aircraft is a risky business strategy in an economy of unpredictable load factors - further you need alot of people to close the business case - if anyone "steals" the first class or business traveler - god help the A380 ..who could that be, well possibly the other folks in France, Dassault with their super sonic business jet, or the folks in Los Angeles at Northrup who have a Super Sonic BBJ in the wind tunnel two years ago .. but, UPS & FEDEX will buy them as bulk freighters .., like they did the MD-11
The wonderful 757 DIED because although it was the best balance of power, safety, reliability and handling, the airlines learned to not like it because it was too damn hard to get turned around - hence it ended up owning the charter market where nobody cares about turn times ..
[Aesthetically,the plane is not a success...the lines just arent right on the thing...its profile is not too bad but front on its plain ugly...is that important?] The A380 IS DESIGNED TO FIT in todays airports - hence its "fatboy" lines
[ The cabin will be to a good standard if their previous aircraft are anything to go by] AIRBUS has not gotten their airconditioning right - even on the newer models - hence the purser stations crammed with stripchart recorders on SAS A340-300s & instrumentation & heater galley floors - to compensate for the cold strata in the cabin
[ but will pale in comparison to the luxury of the 7E7] Cattle class - is - cattle class, what ever AIRBUS OR BOEING cook up interior wise - the airlines will destroy looking through their seat density glasses
[...Boeing,having built the "perfect" plane in terms of flightdeck ergonomics ] FOrget the "perfect" flight deck - the 7E7 is an unbelievable step forward in terms of systems & structures for conservative - stoggy as hell Boeing - in terms of technology - so much so - Im not convinced that Boeing will even build it. Must be a sales job before they spin off their commercial division to someone like General Motors OR Ford - IE someone who are masters at beating up their suppliers ..IE maybe another "Sonic Cruiser" .. but they do have a nice composite prototype body section .. If they do build it & fuel prices stay where they are - airlines will run from tin birds ...they wont have any choice .. AIRBUS will be 4 years behind the Boeing in terms if IR&D & will never catch up .. It will be the TRISTAR story all over .. regardless of how good it was - it was too late & the inferior DC-10 sucked up the market share..
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No sorry mate, I wasn't aware of that. Care to clarify before most people here rip your head off? What if the safety is bypassed - loss of AOC and resulting economics? You fail that acid test regardless of your other tripe! Have you lost the plot??
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"If you don't know that you have no business posting." The criteria for authorisation to post my opinion is not defined by you, with the greatest of respect!
Firstly - There was no specification from your side regarding whom - pilots, ops, maintenance - precisely sacrifices safety, in your view for profit increase. You didn't specify to what extent either.
Secondly - Safety standards are laid out by the law, and in order for airlines to maintain their right to operate, are adhered to throughout the industry in accordance. Either you are suggesting that the law therefore does not allow for a great enough degree of safety in airline ops, or that some airlines are breaking it. Would you like to be more specific in your accusations?
Firstly - There was no specification from your side regarding whom - pilots, ops, maintenance - precisely sacrifices safety, in your view for profit increase. You didn't specify to what extent either.
Secondly - Safety standards are laid out by the law, and in order for airlines to maintain their right to operate, are adhered to throughout the industry in accordance. Either you are suggesting that the law therefore does not allow for a great enough degree of safety in airline ops, or that some airlines are breaking it. Would you like to be more specific in your accusations?
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I'm getting fed up with this thread.
I am also fed up to the back teeth with the usual Airbus vs. Boeing range wars.
This thread is specifically about the evacuation testing of the A380.
Keep discussion on that topic or I will close the thread.
Furthermore, keep personal insults and invective out of this forum altogether unless you are specifically wishing to be banned from PPRuNe.
I am also fed up to the back teeth with the usual Airbus vs. Boeing range wars.
This thread is specifically about the evacuation testing of the A380.
Keep discussion on that topic or I will close the thread.
Furthermore, keep personal insults and invective out of this forum altogether unless you are specifically wishing to be banned from PPRuNe.
